Lyndon Johnson and Hubert Humphrey on 3 November 1964


Transcript

Edited by David G. Coleman, Kent B. Germany, and Marc J. Selverstone, with Kieran K. Matthews

Sounding groggy and ill while getting a massage and waiting for polls to close, Johnson spoke with his running mate, Hubert Humphrey, about the wear and tear of the campaign, recent Republican attacks, voter intimidation, and prospects for today’s election.

President Johnson

Hello?

Hubert Humphrey

Mr. President?

President Johnson

How are you, Hubert?

Humphrey

Well, I’m fine, and how are you?

President Johnson

Oh, I’m just kind of broken up. I’m aching all over. I’ve got a headache, and my damn bones—hip’s hurting, and I just . . I’m just worn out.

I just called you because I hadn’t bothered you, and I didn’t want to, and I didn’t think that … I didn’t think it was a good thing to do. But I wanted to tell you first, before I told anybody else, that you had no orders, and you had no instructions, and you had no mistakes. And I just don’t know how anybody could do any better than that.

Humphrey

Well, Mr. President, you’re wonderful to me. We worked hard, and I enjoyed it very much.

President Johnson

Well, you and your wife, and your family are just perfect. And I was awfully convinced about [it] the night I went up to Atlantic City, but I’m a lot more convinced tonight, and . . . Everybody makes some mistakes, and they’ve got to ride them out, and so you got to suffer with them and understand them. But you and Muriel didn’t make—didn’t slip a bobble, and your family, and I just wanted all of you to—

Humphrey

Well—

President Johnson

—take whatever little comfort that you knew that Lady Bird and I loved you.[note 1] Muriel was Hubert Humphrey’s wife. And—

Humphrey

Well, we love you, Mr. President, and Lady Bird. And we’ve been thinking about you. I haven’t wanted to bother you either. I knew you were on the move every day. But we’ve been keeping in touch with your boys.

President Johnson

Well, that’s the way to—that’s—the way you’ve handled it—you handled it just perfect, and I couldn’t improve on it. And I just give you A-double-plus, and you’ll probably never get that good a grade again. I don’t—

Humphrey

[laughing] We’re going to have a big victory tonight, Mr. President.

President Johnson

I don’t pass many of them out, but I feel that way about it.

I hope so. I don’t know. I’m sitting here with old Homer Thornberry, and they [are] rubbing me.[note 2] Homer Thornberry was a federal judge, appointed to the Western District of Texas on 9 July 9 1963 by John Kennedy. Before taking his position in El Paso, he had represented Austin and the Hill Country in the House. In December 1963, Jake Pickle won a special election to fill Thornberry’s seat. I’ve got a bad hip. I’ve got a—I’ve been standing on my right leg. Your hip ever hurt you?

Humphrey

Yessiree. And I’ll tell you. You know that I had a period in this campaign where I thought my hips and legs were going to kill me!

President Johnson

Well, you just did perfect. You wound it up happier—I told the press this morning you were happier when you started—[at the] end than you were when you started. And you were more effective, and . . .

Humphrey

Well, thank—

President Johnson

Oh, that television … those television—I saw them. I didn’t see them on TV, but I saw them on the practice thing ahead of time—

Humphrey

Yes.

President Johnson

—and it was just perfect. Oh, you were so restrained and so effective. And you looked, by God, just as fresh as a daisy. You must have done—

Humphrey

Well, I felt good. I felt good, and I think we got some good licks in out the West Coast, Mr. President.

President Johnson

Well—

Humphrey

In the last a day or so.

President Johnson

I know. You seemed like you had wonderful crowds.

Humphrey

Yes, sir, we surely did. And I stopped by at Salt Lake City on the way home, just to get in another punch or two on some statewide TV. And I was very careful and very restrained. I didn’t go out on the attack. I just talked about the issue of public morality in terms of public service.

President Johnson

Oh, Hubert, I wish you’d see what these sons of bitches have done. They bought four full-page ads in most papers. Some of them just got 12 pages, some 16. Four full pages in this state, and it’s all “integrity” and “morality”—

Humphrey

I know.

President Johnson

—and [Bobby] Baker and [Walter] Jenkins and Billy Sol Estes.[note 3] Bobby Baker, the protégé of Johnson’s that Goldwater had called “Lyndon Johnson’s man” in March, had resigned his position as secretary of the Senate in late 1963 amid allegations of financial impropriety and had been the target of a Senate investigation for much of the past year. Walter Jenkins, perhaps Johnson’s most loyal and valued aide who had served him for approximately a quarter century, had resigned in October after being arrested on a “morals” charge for seeking relations with a man at the YMCA. Billie Sol Estes built an agricultural empire in Texas that crumbled in 1962 amid his indictment and conviction on fraud charges. His relationship with Lyndon Johnson was the subject of frequent speculation in the press and occasionally resurfaced in the ongoing presidential campaign. Tom Wicker, “Goldwater Aims at Baker Inquiry,” New York Times, 17 March 1964. And …

Humphrey

I know. They had five full pages in the Los Angeles Times on Sunday. Five full pages.

President Johnson

And they’ve got out a[n] instruction from the Negro Protective League, that says that any Negro goes and votes, that the Protective League just wants to inform him, as their friend, that if he’s ever had a traffic ticket, if he’s ever been under suspicion, if he’s ever been speeding, if he’s ever had a old parking ticket, if he ever hadn’t paid his taxes on time, if he’s ever been discharged from employment, that he’ll have to report right away to the sheriff, and that these things will have to be settled before he can clear his record to vote.

Humphrey

God!

President Johnson

And they put those out in all seven cities. Just the meanest, dirtiest, low-down stuff that I ever heard. Ought to go to jail for it. It’s just inhuman.

Humphrey

Well, they’ve been doing it. I tell you, they were doing it out in the Mexican areas, the same thing, in California. And I made several talks and TV appearances on the Los Angeles stations. And I got some good cooperation from the news commentators, letting them know, let these people know, that no one had a right to interfere with their right to vote, and that the Justice Department was standing by to make sure that the citizens’ rights were being upheld. And we called [Acting Attorney General] Nick Katzenbach, and, as you know, he issued some statement to the effect that the Justice Department was standing by to make sure that there was no interference with the citizens’ right to vote.

President Johnson

We’ve got to set us up. The first thing you’ve got to start looking about is how you’re going to have a relationship with the Senate. Now, there’s not going to be any jealousy between me and you.

Humphrey

You know that, Mr. President.

President Johnson

But I want you to try to figure out, with the problems we’ve got, how we can get a committee chairman. We haven’t got but three or four there that are worth a good goddamn.

Humphrey

I know it.

President Johnson

And we want to investigate these election things, and we want to have committees we can refer things to that we can do something about. So we just ought to be thinking about who has the ability and who has the guts.

Humphrey

That’s right.

President Johnson

If Howard Cannon’s elected, he’s one.[note 4] Howard Cannon (D-Nevada) was reelected to the Senate.

Humphrey

Yes, sir. He’s a good one. We’ve got a fellow—I tell you, one boy that’s got guts, if he’ll get in there and dig, is Johnny Pastore.[note 5] John Pastore (D-Rhode Island) had been the keynote speaker at this year’s Democratic National Convention.

President Johnson

Well, he won’t do it. He wants to—see, he’s got that Catholic wife, and he’s got to get home every Thursday.

Humphrey

Yeah, that’s right. That’s—you’re so right about that. [Chuckles.] Well, I’ll look them over very carefully. We’re a little short on those kind of people.

President Johnson

We’ve got to find them. And I’ll see you. Now, we’re going to have all of the 300 press down here.

Humphrey

I’m coming down tomorrow.

President Johnson

And you get here in time for that barbecue that’s going to be out here at noon, and helicopter—

Humphrey

I’ll get there about 12:30 [P.M.].

President Johnson

You let them know what time you’re arriving and where, and a helicopter will bring you out to Austin. And then you just stay as long as you feel like it. And bring whoever you want to. And thank your sweet wife and all your children.[note 6] Humphrey’s son had been diagnosed with cancer and had a malignant tumor removed from his neck in late June.

Humphrey

Well, I will, Mr. President. And listen: Be of good cheer. We’re going to give them the damnedest licking they ever had in their life.

President Johnson

I don’t know about that, but I hope—

Humphrey

Yes, sir.

President Johnson

I hope that’s right.

Humphrey

And—

President Johnson

How many states are we going to carry?

Humphrey

I think we’re going to carry about 46.

President Johnson

OK.

Humphrey

I bet the … I bet we will.

President Johnson

All right. [Unclear.]

Humphrey

And when the … by the way, I just want to let you know that after the latter part of the week, I hope to take off a few days and go down and get me some sunshine in the Virgin Islands.

President Johnson

You ought to. You ought to. Now, what about—you got to. You’ve just got to.

We’re in trouble in Vietnam. Serious trouble. I’ve told them to keep you informed.

Humphrey

Yes, sir.

President Johnson

We’re going to have to hit back there.

Humphrey

Yeah.

President Johnson

The … are you going to carry Minnesota?

Humphrey

Ohhhh … Oh, boy. I don’t want to sound too optimistic, but we will carry Minnesota by 250,000 votes or more.

President Johnson

Out of how many?

Humphrey

Out of a million-three [1.3 million].

President Johnson

That’ll be the biggest one ever?

Humphrey

Yep. We’re going to get the biggest vote ever out of Minnesota.

President Johnson

Well, now you encourage that tonight in all these states as a mandate. Because they’re going to say, “Well, this doesn’t mean anything,” and so on and so forth.

Humphrey

Oh, they’re going to start that right away, Mr. President. They’re going to do two things: Their boys, even some of them that endorsed you, are going to say in some of these papers, say, “Well, this wasn’t a mandate, this is just an anti-[Barry] Goldwater.”

President Johnson

That’s right. Now, what—

Humphrey

Then the next thing they’re going to say is, “Well watch out for Humphrey. He’s not going to be loyal.” I read one of those.

President Johnson

Well, you just tell them that you’ve never seen such campaigning that people love, like Johnson. By God, you got to where it was so contagious you loved him yourself. And—

Humphrey

Well, I want to tell you, Mr. President, when the day comes that I can’t be loyal to you, why, you just fire me.

President Johnson

I know that. I know. And don’t—

Humphrey

You can bring impeachment charges.

President Johnson

No paper’s ever going to come between us. Nobody else.

Humphrey

Sure. You just tell me what you want me to do.

President Johnson

Bye-bye.

Humphrey

God bless you.

President Johnson

Tell Muriel I said I’d call her. [Humphrey attempts to interject.] Tell Muriel that I’ll call to her.

Humphrey

OK, I will.

President Johnson

We won in—me and my family went in 49 states and Muriel took the 50th one, Alaska.[note 7] Muriel Humphrey took a campaign trip to Alaska on 24–25 October. “Mrs. Humphrey Campaigns in Alaska; Hawaii Is Next,” New York Times, 25 October 1964.

Humphrey

[Laughs heartily.] All right. Good.

President Johnson

Good. Good-bye.

Humphrey

I’ll tell her. God bless you. Bye.

Cite as

“Lyndon Johnson and Hubert Humphrey on 3 November 1964,” Conversation WH6411-01-6121, Presidential Recordings Digital Edition [Lyndon B. Johnson: Civil Rights, Vietnam, and the War on Poverty, ed. David G. Coleman, Kent B. Germany, Guian A. McKee, and Marc J. Selverstone] (Charlottesville: University of Virginia Press, 2014–). URL: http://prde.upress.virginia.edu/conversations/4002629