[Unclear] if it goes down the drain, my philosophy is, “What the hell?” We at least will try. And, incidentally, our position will prove right. But if this is lost, we’re very much [unclear].

Mr. President, if this is lost [unclear].

Yes.

If this [unclear] is lost, then this country—the only consolation we have—but it won’t do us any good—is that the people who put us into this position are going to be destroyed by the right.

Damn right.

They’re going to be destroyed. The liberals and radicals are going to be killed. This is a basically right-wing country.

I think it is.

You’d get a [George C.] Wallace—[note 1] George C. Wallace was an independent candidate for president in 1968 and governor of Alabama, January 1963–January 1967, January 1971–January 1979, January 1983–January 1987.

You’d probably get a [Ronald W.] Reagan or Wallace, couldn’t you?[note 2] Ronald W. Reagan was governor of California, January 1967–January 1975, and president of the United States, January 1981–January 1989. You’d get a Reagan.

I know, but a Wallace without a Southern accent. Or a Reagan with some [unclear] and education. All of our right-wingers have had some defect, but if we could get—if we get someone—

Reagan has enough; he has enough. [Kissinger attempts to interject.] They could go for Reagan. He’s desperately interested in it. And, too, with a Reagan in here, you could damn well almost get yourself into a nuclear war and get killed. He’s the kind with no—he has no judgment.

No judgment.

No—no finesse. No subtlety. It’s all—everything is simple. Thank God it’s simple on our side at the moment. As you know very well, [unclear].

Your policy has been of extraordinary complexity, Mr. President. To think that with as little [unclear] domestic support we’ve had, you could have gotten us to a point where we have suffered no major setback—