… We had a registration up here yesterday. We beat them 6 to 1.

Good God, that’s wonderful. Get that on the wire. Get somebody to say that, and get it out over the country.

I’m going to do it today. We beat them … well, on Monday we beat them 5 to 1; it was 1,500 to 300. Yesterday it was 1,600-odd to 200.

Hell, that’s damn near 8 to 1.

Well, yes, but they ran 240, something like that. So it would run 6 and a fraction to 1.

Mmm … mmm.

Doing very well.

That’s wonderful.

I expect to put on the books prior to September 14, 100,000 new voters.[note 2] By mid-September, the Philadelphia Democratic Party would register 130,353 new voters; Republicans in the city registered 38,593. Joseph A. Loftus, New York Times, 21 September 1964.

Oh, God, that’s wonderful.

Yeah, we’re going to be in shape.

Now, they tell me that we’re not going to do as well there as [President] Kennedy did in ‘60.[note 3] In 1960, John F. Kennedy won Philadelphia by a margin of 331,544 votes, allowing him to carry Pennsylvania despite losing the rest of the state to Republican Richard M. Nixon by 215,000 votes (for a margin of 116,326 votes, or 51.06 percent to 48.74 percent). In 1964, Johnson would do even better, carrying the city by 430,912 votes and the state by 1.46 million votes (64.9 percent to 34.7 percent). Joseph H. Miller, “Lyndon Ahead Now in Pennsylvania,” Washington Post, 4 October 1964; Pennsylvania Department of Property and Supplies, “Presidential Electors General Election, November 8, 1960,” The Pennsylvania Manual 1961–1962 (Harrisburg, 1961), and Pennsylvania Department of Property and Supplies, “President of the United States General Election—November 3, 1964,” The 1965–1966 Pennsylvania Manual (Harrisburg, 1966), both cited in David Leip, Dave Leip’s Atlas of U.S. Presidential Elections, http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/datagraph.php?year=1964&fips=42&f=0&off=0&elect=0; Congressional Quarterly Almanac, 86th Congress, 2nd sess., 1960, vol. 16 (Washington, DC: Congressional Quarterly Service, 1961), p. 755;Congressional Quarterly Almanac, 88th Cong., 2nd sess., 1964, vol. 20 (Washington, DC: Congressional Quarterly Service, 1965), pp. 1056–57.. Is there anything to that?

Well, you’ve got to be a stargazer to figure that one. If you can get them to do something beyond parading and rebelling and put their talents to work, we’ll do equally as good.

Mm-hmm.

My big—my problem is just one thing.

Mm-hmm.

That’s the racial disturbances.

Mm-hmm.

If we can keep that under control and avoid the so-called white backlash, we’re in great shape.

Mm-hmm. Are you having any disturbances in Philadelphia?

We had a shooting yesterday of a young 16-year-old boy by a policeman that was no good.[note 4] The Democratic registration gains included 35,000 new African American voters and resulted in part from a campaign by the local NAACP chapter that called for black voter registration as a means of reducing “constable brutality.” Fred Powledge, “N.A.A.C.P. Seeking A Million Voters,” New York Times, 23 August 1964; “Negro Vote Gain Aids Democrats,” New York Times, 11 October 1964.

Mmm.

But they’ve kept calm about it. And I’m hopeful that nothing breaks out today and will be handled in an orderly fashion. Now, we did have disturbances, and of course the Chester [Pennsylvania] thing was right at our backdoor.[note 5] Chester, a heavily industrial city just south of Philadelphia along the Delaware River, was the site of significant racial tension in 1964, including an outbreak of violence just after the close of the Democratic National Convention in August. “Police Rout Negro Sit-Ins in Chester, PA.,” Chicago Tribune, 29 March 1964; William Chapman and Leroy F. Aarons, “Philadelphia Outburst Predicted by Some,” Washington Post, 30 August 1964.

Mm-hmm.

But we’ve had sensible people. Now, I had a meeting yesterday with 15 of the outstanding Negroes, and they speak just as vigorously as you or I do about retaining order.

Mm-hmm.

And using intelligence and getting their people registered. They want to voice it through the ballot box, and that’s what I want them to do.

Did … What—did the policeman just lose his head?

[sadly] Yes. Quick.

Mmm.

Quick with the revolver.

Kill him?

Yeah. Right through the chest. Right through the heart.

What was the boy doing?

Larceny, robbery. Sixteen-year-old, unarmed. It’s just a terrible thing.

Did he threaten him or anything?

No. He hollered to him to stop, and the boy ran, and he fired. Killed him.

Mmm, mmm.

Frank, have you got any influence—any of your friends or associates—with any of these Republicans in the House of Representatives?

Down in Washington?

Yeah.

Uh … [chuckling] Well, of course, we don’t have any Republicans, thank God, for Philadelphia.

No, no, I know … I know you don’t—in Philadelphia. But there are a bunch of folks around—the [Robert] Corbetts, and the [James] Fultons, and … [note 6] Representatives Robert J. Corbett and James G. Fulton were Pennsylvania Republicans from the Pittsburgh area; both would vote in favor of the economic opportunity bill.

Yeah.

I don’t know, maybe …

Dave Lawrence is very friendly with Corbett.[note 7] David Lawrence was a former mayor of Pittsburgh, former governor of Pennsylvania, and was serving as chair of the Democratic National Committee’s Credentials Committee.

Well, I’ll talk to Dave today.

[with Smith acknowledging] We need some votes on this poverty bill that’s going to help the cities a lot, and we can give a hell of a lot of jobs. We figure we can put 100,000 people to work—youngsters—in the cities in 90 days, if we can get it passed. [They’re] about 10 votes short, and they’re trying to get some Republicans [from] Pennsylvania. But I’m going to see Dave a little bit later this morning.[note 8] Johnson would meet with David Lawrence at 1:55 P.M.

Now, how many out of your [convention] delegation—Pennsylvania—how many of them are your boys from …

We split about even, right down the middle.

Philadelphia’s got half of them?

[with Johnson acknowledging] We have five of them. We did have six; we lost one on reapportionment. But all five are ours, of course, have [unclear]—

Oh, yeah, they’ll all be there.

Now, I may be able to talk to this guy out in Delaware County. [William H.] Milliken, I can get ahold of him.[note 9] Pennsylvania’s Seventh District, encompassing Delaware County (immediately east of Philadelphia), was represented by Republican William H. Milliken. He would vote in favor of the economic opportunity bill.

I’d just tell him that you’re going to get some people out of these riots and out of these pool halls and out of these bars and put them to work! [It will] help everybody, and if he’ll help you, why, you’ll find some way to help them.

There’s no … there’s no better way to stop it than putting them to work.

That’s what we’re doing.

Now, how much … of the Pennsylvania delegation to Atlantic City, the convention, how many of them are Philadelphia folks?

Well, now, the at-large, let’s see: We would have four; that would be 20. Four to a district is 20, and we have about 12 more on top of that. About 32.

And how many total do you have?

A hundred and … I think it’s 116. Hundred, something like that.

Now, have you got boys that stay with you?

Oh, yes, we’re all right.

All right. Now, will they—

Mine are perfectly all right.

All right. Will they go with the President on whoever he wants for …

I’m for you; whoever you want for the vice president.

Well …

I don’t care who it is.

God bless you. We’ll be careful, and we’ll get a good one. But I just don’t want to have any war up there, and I don’t want to have to sleep with somebody that I don’t want to sleep with, and ain’t no use in splitting—[note 10] Johnson was referring to his decision not to have Robert Kennedy as his running mate. He had used the same metaphor in the conversation earlier in the day with Mayor Robert Wagner, and several days before that in a conversation with John Connally. He told Connally, “I’m not going to let them put somebody in bed with me that’ll murder me.” See Conversation WH6407-19-4412 and WH6407-13-4320, 4321, 4322, 4323.

Well, we’re not—no matter who you pick, I’m with you.

Ain’t no use splitting the ticket before we start, you know, and …

I agree with that.

I wanted you to know that I was counting on you, and you’re going to be on my team, and I’m going to work with you, and we—

[with Johnson acknowledging] You can depend on that. Dave Lawrence—Dave is the chairman of the delegation and I’m the vice chairman.

Yeah, well, I’m going to see him this morning. But I …

I [unclear]—

I talk to my leaders, but I also I want to talk to you direct, and I want you to feel free to pick up the phone and call me.

All right. [Unclear], Mr. President, my answer to you on the vice president is: One, I’m for whoever you’re for. And number two, if you’ve got a good sense of humor, I said to Cliff Carter the other day down at your luncheon [Johnson chuckles] [when] he asked me who I thought would make a good vice president. And I said I didn’t want him to think that because Dick Hughes, the governor of New Jersey, and I were first cousins, that that would influence my thinking. [Johnson chuckles.] That I thought he’d make a good candidate.

He is, and he’s a wonderful fellow. And I love Dick, and we’ll give thought to him.

I don’t care who you’re for; I’m for you.

Thank you, my friend.

Now there’s—

Bye.

You make the decision.

And if you can do anything to any congressman or Republican or get any of your business people to talk to any Republicans, any company friend of yours, just tell them to help you get some of these boys, these old hard-packing boys sitting around the bars, get them out and go to work before you have some riots in Pennsylvania. And [if] they can get any Republican votes for this poverty bill, it’ll sure help.

I’m going to check it out with Dave, and anybody we can put the pressure on, I’ll try to get them.

All right. … Thank you.

All right. Nice talking to you, Mr. President.

Bye. Bye.

Thank you.