Hello?

Mr. President?

How are you, Hubert?

Well, I’m fine, and how are you?

Oh, I’m just kind of broken up. I’m aching all over. I’ve got a headache, and my damn bones—hip’s hurting, and I just . . I’m just worn out.

I just called you because I hadn’t bothered you, and I didn’t want to, and I didn’t think that … I didn’t think it was a good thing to do. But I wanted to tell you first, before I told anybody else, that you had no orders, and you had no instructions, and you had no mistakes. And I just don’t know how anybody could do any better than that.

Well, Mr. President, you’re wonderful to me. We worked hard, and I enjoyed it very much.

Well, you and your wife, and your family are just perfect. And I was awfully convinced about [it] the night I went up to Atlantic City, but I’m a lot more convinced tonight, and . . . Everybody makes some mistakes, and they’ve got to ride them out, and so you got to suffer with them and understand them. But you and Muriel didn’t make—didn’t slip a bobble, and your family, and I just wanted all of you to—

Well—

—take whatever little comfort that you knew that Lady Bird and I loved you.[note 1] Muriel was Hubert Humphrey’s wife. And—

Well, we love you, Mr. President, and Lady Bird. And we’ve been thinking about you. I haven’t wanted to bother you either. I knew you were on the move every day. But we’ve been keeping in touch with your boys.

Well, that’s the way to—that’s—the way you’ve handled it—you handled it just perfect, and I couldn’t improve on it. And I just give you A-double-plus, and you’ll probably never get that good a grade again. I don’t—

[laughing] We’re going to have a big victory tonight, Mr. President.

I don’t pass many of them out, but I feel that way about it.

I hope so. I don’t know. I’m sitting here with old Homer Thornberry, and they [are] rubbing me.[note 2] Homer Thornberry was a federal judge, appointed to the Western District of Texas on 9 July 9 1963 by John Kennedy. Before taking his position in El Paso, he had represented Austin and the Hill Country in the House. In December 1963, Jake Pickle won a special election to fill Thornberry’s seat. I’ve got a bad hip. I’ve got a—I’ve been standing on my right leg. Your hip ever hurt you?

Yessiree. And I’ll tell you. You know that I had a period in this campaign where I thought my hips and legs were going to kill me!

Well, you just did perfect. You wound it up happier—I told the press this morning you were happier when you started—[at the] end than you were when you started. And you were more effective, and . . .

Well, thank—

Oh, that television … those television—I saw them. I didn’t see them on TV, but I saw them on the practice thing ahead of time—

Yes.

—and it was just perfect. Oh, you were so restrained and so effective. And you looked, by God, just as fresh as a daisy. You must have done—

Well, I felt good. I felt good, and I think we got some good licks in out the West Coast, Mr. President.

Well—

In the last a day or so.

I know. You seemed like you had wonderful crowds.

Yes, sir, we surely did. And I stopped by at Salt Lake City on the way home, just to get in another punch or two on some statewide TV. And I was very careful and very restrained. I didn’t go out on the attack. I just talked about the issue of public morality in terms of public service.

Oh, Hubert, I wish you’d see what these sons of bitches have done. They bought four full-page ads in most papers. Some of them just got 12 pages, some 16. Four full pages in this state, and it’s all “integrity” and “morality”—

I know.

—and [Bobby] Baker and [Walter] Jenkins and Billy Sol Estes.[note 3] Bobby Baker, the protégé of Johnson’s that Goldwater had called “Lyndon Johnson’s man” in March, had resigned his position as secretary of the Senate in late 1963 amid allegations of financial impropriety and had been the target of a Senate investigation for much of the past year. Walter Jenkins, perhaps Johnson’s most loyal and valued aide who had served him for approximately a quarter century, had resigned in October after being arrested on a “morals” charge for seeking relations with a man at the YMCA. Billie Sol Estes built an agricultural empire in Texas that crumbled in 1962 amid his indictment and conviction on fraud charges. His relationship with Lyndon Johnson was the subject of frequent speculation in the press and occasionally resurfaced in the ongoing presidential campaign. Tom Wicker, “Goldwater Aims at Baker Inquiry,” New York Times, 17 March 1964. And …

I know. They had five full pages in the Los Angeles Times on Sunday. Five full pages.

And they’ve got out a[n] instruction from the Negro Protective League, that says that any Negro goes and votes, that the Protective League just wants to inform him, as their friend, that if he’s ever had a traffic ticket, if he’s ever been under suspicion, if he’s ever been speeding, if he’s ever had a old parking ticket, if he ever hadn’t paid his taxes on time, if he’s ever been discharged from employment, that he’ll have to report right away to the sheriff, and that these things will have to be settled before he can clear his record to vote.

God!

And they put those out in all seven cities. Just the meanest, dirtiest, low-down stuff that I ever heard. Ought to go to jail for it. It’s just inhuman.

Well, they’ve been doing it. I tell you, they were doing it out in the Mexican areas, the same thing, in California. And I made several talks and TV appearances on the Los Angeles stations. And I got some good cooperation from the news commentators, letting them know, let these people know, that no one had a right to interfere with their right to vote, and that the Justice Department was standing by to make sure that the citizens’ rights were being upheld. And we called [Acting Attorney General] Nick Katzenbach, and, as you know, he issued some statement to the effect that the Justice Department was standing by to make sure that there was no interference with the citizens’ right to vote.

We’ve got to set us up. The first thing you’ve got to start looking about is how you’re going to have a relationship with the Senate. Now, there’s not going to be any jealousy between me and you.

You know that, Mr. President.

But I want you to try to figure out, with the problems we’ve got, how we can get a committee chairman. We haven’t got but three or four there that are worth a good goddamn.

I know it.

And we want to investigate these election things, and we want to have committees we can refer things to that we can do something about. So we just ought to be thinking about who has the ability and who has the guts.

That’s right.

If Howard Cannon’s elected, he’s one.[note 4] Howard Cannon (D-Nevada) was reelected to the Senate.

Yes, sir. He’s a good one. We’ve got a fellow—I tell you, one boy that’s got guts, if he’ll get in there and dig, is Johnny Pastore.[note 5] John Pastore (D-Rhode Island) had been the keynote speaker at this year’s Democratic National Convention.

Well, he won’t do it. He wants to—see, he’s got that Catholic wife, and he’s got to get home every Thursday.

Yeah, that’s right. That’s—you’re so right about that. [Chuckles.] Well, I’ll look them over very carefully. We’re a little short on those kind of people.

We’ve got to find them. And I’ll see you. Now, we’re going to have all of the 300 press down here.

I’m coming down tomorrow.

And you get here in time for that barbecue that’s going to be out here at noon, and helicopter—

I’ll get there about 12:30 [P.M.].

You let them know what time you’re arriving and where, and a helicopter will bring you out to Austin. And then you just stay as long as you feel like it. And bring whoever you want to. And thank your sweet wife and all your children.[note 6] Humphrey’s son had been diagnosed with cancer and had a malignant tumor removed from his neck in late June.

Well, I will, Mr. President. And listen: Be of good cheer. We’re going to give them the damnedest licking they ever had in their life.

I don’t know about that, but I hope—

Yes, sir.

I hope that’s right.

And—

How many states are we going to carry?

I think we’re going to carry about 46.

OK.

I bet the … I bet we will.

All right. [Unclear.]

And when the … by the way, I just want to let you know that after the latter part of the week, I hope to take off a few days and go down and get me some sunshine in the Virgin Islands.

You ought to. You ought to. Now, what about—you got to. You’ve just got to.

We’re in trouble in Vietnam. Serious trouble. I’ve told them to keep you informed.

Yes, sir.

We’re going to have to hit back there.

Yeah.

The … are you going to carry Minnesota?

Ohhhh … Oh, boy. I don’t want to sound too optimistic, but we will carry Minnesota by 250,000 votes or more.

Out of how many?

Out of a million-three [1.3 million].

That’ll be the biggest one ever?

Yep. We’re going to get the biggest vote ever out of Minnesota.

Well, now you encourage that tonight in all these states as a mandate. Because they’re going to say, “Well, this doesn’t mean anything,” and so on and so forth.

Oh, they’re going to start that right away, Mr. President. They’re going to do two things: Their boys, even some of them that endorsed you, are going to say in some of these papers, say, “Well, this wasn’t a mandate, this is just an anti-[Barry] Goldwater.”

That’s right. Now, what—

Then the next thing they’re going to say is, “Well watch out for Humphrey. He’s not going to be loyal.” I read one of those.

Well, you just tell them that you’ve never seen such campaigning that people love, like Johnson. By God, you got to where it was so contagious you loved him yourself. And—

Well, I want to tell you, Mr. President, when the day comes that I can’t be loyal to you, why, you just fire me.

I know that. I know. And don’t—

You can bring impeachment charges.

No paper’s ever going to come between us. Nobody else.

Sure. You just tell me what you want me to do.

Bye-bye.

God bless you.

Tell Muriel I said I’d call her. [Humphrey attempts to interject.] Tell Muriel that I’ll call to her.

OK, I will.

We won in—me and my family went in 49 states and Muriel took the 50th one, Alaska.[note 7] Muriel Humphrey took a campaign trip to Alaska on 24–25 October. “Mrs. Humphrey Campaigns in Alaska; Hawaii Is Next,” New York Times, 25 October 1964.

[Laughs heartily.] All right. Good.

Good. Good-bye.

I’ll tell her. God bless you. Bye.