Mr. President.

We want to know if you got—how that vote’s going to come. Is it going to be close?

Which one?

Well, all of them. [Laughs.]

No, no. None of them close, but I have Ross Bass [D–Tennessee] here with me and [Joseph M.] Joe Montoya [D–New Mexico] and Fred [R.] Harris [D–Oklahoma] and [Robert F. “Bobby”] Kennedy is coming over very shortly.[note 1] Ross Bass was a U.S. representative [D–Tennessee] from January 1955 to November 1964, and a U.S. senator [D–Tennessee] from November 1964 to January 1967. Joseph M. “Joe” Montoya was a U.S. representative [D–New Mexico] from April 1957 to November 1964, and a U.S. senator [D–New Mexico] from November 1964 to January 1977. Fred R. Harris was a U.S. senator [D–Oklahoma] from November 1964 to January 1973; a commissioner on the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders, known popularly as the Kerner Commission, from 1967 to 1968; and chair of the Democratic National Committee from 1969 to 1970. Robert F. “Bobby” Kennedy was U.S. attorney general from January 1961 to September 1964, and a U.S. senator [D–New York] from January 1965 until his assassination in June 1968.

Well, that’s good. I’m sorry I called early. They told me that you—about time to call, and they had to go get old Hubert [H. Humphrey Jr.] [DFL–Minnesota] up.[note 2] Hubert H. Humphrey Jr. was the Democratic mayor of Minneapolis, Minnesota, from July 1945 to November 1948; a U.S. senator [DFL–Minnesota] from January 1949 to December 1964 and January 1971 to January 1978; Senate Majority Whip from January 1961 to December 1964; vice president of the United States from January 1965 to January 1969; and the Democratic U.S. presidential candidate in 1968. He’s been riding horses down here, [Mansfield laughs] and he’s a pretty late sleeper. And you ruined him up there in the Senate. When, hell, when I was up there, he’d come to work in the morning. He doesn’t get up down here now till midmorning.

Now, you ruined him during this campaign. Now, you got to make up for it. [President Johnson laughs.] But, Mr. President, anything you want me [to] tell these boys, or would you like to say hello to them individually?

I’ll be glad to and—

Do you want me to talk to you later?

Yeah, yeah. And let—wait a minute, let Hubert get on the other line, say hello to you while he’s here. He’s got his robe on and—

OK.

—got one eye open.

[speaking in the background] [Unclear]?

Hello, Mike.

How are you, Hubert?

Well, fine.

Well, you look great in that western outfit.

Didn’t I look great in that western outfit? [Both laugh heartily.]

He lost the Wayne [L.] Morse [D–Oregon] vote.[note 3] Wayne L. Morse was a U.S. senator [Oregon], who served as a Republican from 1945 to 1952, an Independent from 1953 to 1956, and a Democrat from 1957 to 1969. Along with Ernest Gruening [D–Alaska], he was one of only two senators to vote against the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Wayne Morse said if he ever got on another horse he’d never vote for him again.[note 4] Morse owned a ranch and was knowledgeable about riding horses.

[laughing] That’s right.

Well, listen, let me put these boys on one at a time. Then I want to talk to you—

Wait a minute, Mike. Did you hear what Hubert announced in his speech here?

No.

He said, “By God, he’d resign from the ADA [Americans for Democratic Action], and he’s resigning from any more horseback riding.”

[Laughs heartily.]

I told them I’d done enough for the President. [Laughs.]

You sure as hell have. [Humphrey chuckles.]

A president could ask only so much. [Humphrey continues laughing.]

Hello?

Hello?

Who is this?

Ross Bass, Mr. President.

By God, Ross, that’s . . . how’s that [Barry M.] Goldwater [Sr.] [R–Arizona] country?[note 5] Barry M. Goldwater Sr. was a U.S. senator [R–Arizona] from January 1953 to January 1965 and January 1969 to January 1987, and the Republican U.S. presidential candidate in 1964.

[Laughs.] Listen, you just absolutely slaughtered him down there, and we certainly appreciate—that last trip you came down there did the trick.

I’ll tell you, we—

[speaking over President Johnson] Albert [A. “Al” Gore Sr.] [D–Tennessee] and I both came out all right.[note 6] Albert A. “Al” Gore Sr. was a U.S. representative [D–Tennessee] from January 1939 to January 1953; a U.S. senator [D–Tennessee] from January 1953 to January 1971; and a member of the Senate Finance Committee.

We needed both of those trips, didn’t we?

Absolutely so. And I told you, and that’s what did it, and you’re a great man. Congratulations. The greatest victory in the history of the country, and you’re the greatest leader, and I want you to know that you’ll have my full cooperation in every way.

I know that. I’m mighty proud of you, Ross.

[Unclear] Montoya here. [Unclear]—

Mighty proud of—wait a minute, Ross! Wait a minute!

All right.

Hubert wants to say a word to you.

Oh, All right. Well—

You got to know the presiding officer, [or] you won’t even get recognized up there.

That’s the truth! [Unclear]—

[Laughs.] Ross?

Mr. Vice President, how are you?

Well, I’m fine. We just cheered for you. Gosh, that’s great.

Congratulations to you.

Well, thank you.

How did Tennessee finally come out? Fifty thousand ahead?

You carried it by over a hundred, around 125[000], and I carried it by about 50[000] or 60[000]. Albert carried it by about a hundred. They concentrated on me the last few days over there, you know. They decided they could get me, and so they just went to work on me and tried to—

Well—

—cut me up, but they didn’t.

Remember I had a great victory with 87 once.[note 7] President Johnson is referring to his victory over former Texas governor Coke R. Stevenson in the Democratic primary for a U.S. Senate seat in 1948.

Well, I tell you what, [President Johnson chuckles softly] you did a great job for us down here. We really appreciate it.

Here’s Hubert now.

Got—Well, listen, Ross, I know that you’re just as happy as can be, and I surely want to congratulate you. It was fun being with you.

Thank you for all your [unclear]—

Ross, how do you think Hubert looks on a horse?

[Laughs heartily.] Listen, I’ll tell you what: he—that’s a desecration to put him on a Tennessee Walking Horse.

[Laughs heartily.]

Was it a desecration to Hubert or the horse?

[Laughs.] Well, the horse. Though, you know those Tennessee Walking Horses will take care of a neophyte like that.

[Laughs heartily.]

When I convert them into cow ponies, that’s pretty good, though, isn’t it?

Senator, don’t you like those Tennessee Walking Horses?

Yeah, I sure do. I wish I could get one that’d stand still.

[Laughter in background, probably Mansfield.] We’ll have to—I’ll tell you what, we’ll have to get you one that’s trained for a gentle rider.

Yeah, that’s right.

OK—

[speaking over Bass] What about that unanimous vote Mike got—Mike got up there in Montana? He and John [B.] Connally are getting vulgar the way they run.[note 8] John B. Connally was secretary of the U.S. Navy from January 1961 to December 1961; Democratic governor of Texas from January 1963 to January 1969, during which time he was wounded in the assassination of President Kennedy; and U.S. secretary of the treasury from February 1971 to May 1972. Connally was one of Lyndon Johnson’s closest advisers, joining Johnson’s congressional staff in 1938 and managing Johnson’s campaign for the 1960 Democratic presidential nomination.

That’s right. [Chuckles.]

No, sir, Mr. President, you carried Montana by 65[000] [unclear]—

Yeah, but hell, how many did you carry it by? They told me that you were practically unanimous.

No, it was 75,000.

Yeah.

[Humphrey laughs.] Well, it was a great victory all over the country, and I never saw the beat of it in my life. It was absolutely terrific and—of both of you, and we want you to come back to Tennessee and see us. And rest assured of this one thing: that Ross Bass is behind the President and the Vice President.

I know it. Tell me, what—how did Memphis go?

We carried Memphis.

That’s good.

Yes sirree, we carried Memphis and carried Nashville 2-to-1 almost, and they cut us up in east Tennessee. You ran a lot stronger in east Tennessee than I did in the traditionally Republican areas.

Mm-hmm.

I ran a little bit stronger than you did in the Democratic areas, but you cut the nuts out of them over in that Republican area, which I was very, very proud of.

Well, that shows I’m a better Republican than you, Ross.

[Laughs heartily.] [President Johnson snorts.] It shows that you’re just better loved, you know.

Yeah . . .

All the women over there voted for you is what it was.

[Laughs.]

God bless those women. I’ll tell you if it hadn’t been for them I wouldn’t even be around here.

That’s exactly right, yes, sir. Well, Mr. President and Mr. Vice President, good to talk to both of you.

Thank you.

And now I’ll let you talk to the new senator of New Mexico.

Good.

Oh boy.

Hello.

¿José, cómo le va?

¿Cómo está, you all?

Oh, bien. ¿Usted?

[Chuckles.] Oh, fine.

Goddamn, you ran away from them out there, didn’t you?

Yes, we did, but you did magnificently well. You carried the state by 90,000.

Oh, that’s good.

And . . . it was certainly wonderful. You carried Bernalillo County by 25,000. That’s where you spoke.

Yeah.

And that went for [Dwight D.] Eisenhower by 30,000 before.[note 9] Dwight D. Eisenhower was a five-star general of the U.S. Army; governor of the American Zone of Occupied Germany from May 1945 to November 1945; chief of staff of the U.S. Army from November 1945 to February 1948; Supreme Allied Commander in Europe from April 1951 to May 1952; president of Columbia University from 1948 to 1953; and president of the United States from January 1953 to January 1961.

Oh, well, that’s good. Albuquerque came through all right, then, didn’t it?

Very well.

What did that [Edwin L.] Mechem [R–New Mexico] do?[note 10] Edwin L. Mechem was the Republican governor of New Mexico from January 1951 to January 1955, January 1957 to January 1959, and January 1961 to November 1962; a U.S. senator [R–New Mexico] from November 1962 to November 1964; and a judge of the U.S. District Court for the District of New Mexico from October 1970 to July 1982. Mechem lost his bid for reelection to the Senate in 1964.

Well, I beat him by 30,000. I got 58 percent of the vote.

Well, that’s wonderful. Damn him; he ought to quit voting with Goldwater all the time.

He will from now on. [Laughs.]

That’s a wonderful record, Joe, and I’m awfully proud of you.

I’m sure grateful, too. [Unclear]—

[speaking over Montoya] I’ll tell you, I bet you—I bet you old [Antonio] Tony [Taylor] and Matiana [Taylor] are pleased.[note 11] Antonio “Tony” Taylor was the brother of Lady Bird Johnson. Matiana was his wife. He helped organize support and campaign for Johnson in New Mexico, Texas, and Arizona. See Conversation WH6410-07-5865-5866.

Yeah.

You know, old Tony got to be a campaigner down here. [speaking over Montoya] He got to where he could speak the English, and he really went to town.

He really did a magnificent job.

Hubert wants to talk to you, Joe.

All right.

Joe? [Clears throat.] Joe?

Yes, sir.

Boy, I’m glad, and I’m delighted with your victory.

Well, thank you. I’m glad with yours, too, and I want you to know that Santa Fe [New Mexico] was the banner county that I had.

Oh, wonderful. Well, we had a great time out there. Gosh, that was fun.

And you did a magnificent job campaigning nationally, and we’re proud of you.

Well, we sure look forward to working with you. The President said I had to be very good to you. He said, “Every time Joe Montoya wants to be recognized, you let him—"

Well, thank you very much.

"—you let him speak.”

Now, I’m going to put Fred Harris from Oklahoma here.

All right, good.

Bye. [speaking aside to Harris] Get on, Fred.

Hello?

Fred?

Mr. President?

How did . . . what happened to that football coach?

Well, by God, [chuckles] you helped me beat him.[note 12] In a special election to fill the seat vacated by the passing of Sen. Robert S. Kerr [D–Oklahoma], Harris defeated Bud Wilkinson, the former football coach at the University of Oklahoma. President Johnson’s victory in Oklahoma marked the first time a Democratic presidential candidate had won the state’s electoral votes since 1952.

[Laughs.]

My gosh, you rolled him up, and I sure want to congratulate you and say how much I appreciate what you did for me.

Well, I’m—old [Robert S.] Bob Kerr [Sr.] would be mighty proud of you today if he was around.[note 13] Robert S. “Bob” Kerr Sr. was a petroleum businessman; governor of Oklahoma from January 1943 to January 1947; and a U.S. senator [D–Oklahoma] from January 1949 until his death on 1 January 1963. I’m sure glad. You’d have disgraced him if you’d had a Republican succeed him.

Oh, wouldn’t that have been terrible?

It would.

[Unclear] every big one they had. And it was tough. They quit Goldwater to the last, pretty much concentrated on him. But we—it looks like 20-something-thousand’s what it’s going to be. And last time I saw yours it was 100,000, 110[000] and getting a little higher.

Well, you did a remarkable job, Fred, and we are mighty proud of you. And I held my left one for about two hours Saturday night.

It was tough as the devil. Your lady [Lady Bird Johnson] and Senator Humphrey and your daughter and yourself, the whole business really, really helped, and I really appreciate it.[note 14] Lady Bird Johnson (née Claudia Alta Taylor) was the wife of Lyndon B. Johnson since 1934; second lady of the United States from January 1961 to November 1963; and first lady of the United States from November 1963 to January 1969.

Well, we appreciate you, and you got a good man there in that Mansfield, so you just, you stay close to his side and warm up to him and be nice to old Humphrey here, because he [is] liable to get ruthless in that chair with all this power.

[Unclear.]

He might not want to recognize an Okie.

[Laughs.] [Unclear.]

Well, I’ll say this to you: I told you when you called me from New York way back yonder, I said, “I aim to come up here as a Johnson man,” and that’s the way I come.

Attaboy.

God bless you. You talk to Hubert, now.

Well, Fred, I’m going to be just brief with you. I just want you to know I was just thrilled with your victory. It was the high point of the election, as far as I was concerned.

Well, thank you. You had a great, great part in it. The two speeches you made there were tremendous.

Well, I enjoyed being with you good folks.

Thanks a million to you both.

And we look forward to working closely with you.

Amen.

Fred, you see that bunch of old boys over there at that club that we went to, that thousand-dollar club, now.

Right.

You want to tell them that we meant what we said there when we told them that we were Harris people.

[Laughs.] Amen.

Give your wife my love.

I certainly will. Thanks a million to you both.

All right.

Mr. President.

Yeah?

I talked to—I went to see Everett [M.] Dirksen [R–Illinois] yesterday in the hospital.[note 15] Everett M. Dirksen was a U.S. senator [R–Illinois] from January 1951 until his death in September 1969, and Senate Minority Leader from January 1959 to September 1969.

Yeah.

He’s got the recurrence of that fractured spine or whatever it is, and he’s leaving the hospital today to go down to Florida. He asked me if there was going to be a meeting of the leadership before the session. Well, I would assume there would be a bipartisan leadership sometime, because it was your policy to keep the leadership on both sides informed of developments.

Yeah.

So I just pass that on for what it’s worth.

Well, that’s good. We—

He was awfully good to us in the last couple years.

Yeah.

And [someone coughs in the background] when we needed him.

Sure do.

A message from you to him, I think, would be very well received.

Good. Well, I talked to him yesterday.

Oh, you—good! Oh, well, fine. That’s good, then. That’s the main thing.

He called me yesterday afternoon, wanted to know if it’s all right for him to go to Florida, and I told him if they had any problems I’d call him. [Mansfield attempts to interject.] We do have a hell of a lot of trouble in Vietnam, [Mansfield acknowledges] but we’re trying to—they came in there the other day and got some pretty strong ideas, and I sent them back—told them, “Let’s be careful. Let’s look where we’re going before we go and take a good look at it.” So that’s what they’re doing now. And I’ll be in touch with you in a few days.[note 16] President Johnson is likely referring to the White House meeting held on 2 November that resulted in new and intensive planning for U.S. operations in Vietnam. See “Editorial Note,” Foreign Relations of the United States, 1964–1968 (Washington, DC: Government Printing Office, 1968), 1:886–88, doc. 403.

Yeah. Now, Mr. President, have you . . . are you going to the inauguration of [Gustavo] Díaz Ordaz in Mexico City [Mexico]?[note 17] Gustavo Díaz Ordaz was president of Mexico from December 1964 to November 1970. He was elected president on 5 July 1964 and inaugurated on 1 December 1964.

No. No. No, I don’t think so.

Have you got anyone selected to head the delegation?

[Dean] Rusk had suggested Hubert, if I could get him, and I mentioned it to him, but I haven’t finished it out yet.[note 18] Dean Rusk was U.S. deputy under secretary of state from 1949 to 1950; U.S. assistant secretary of state for Far Eastern Affairs from March 1950 to December 1951; a trustee of the Rockefeller Foundation from 1950 to 1961, and president from 1952 to 1961; U.S. secretary of state from January 1961 to January 1969; recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom, with distinction, in 1969; and professor of international law at the University of Georgia School of Law from 1970 to 1984.

Well, if you’re looking for someone and you’d like to consider the senator from Montana as the head of the delegation, he’d appreciate it.

All right, all right.

Because I know both of your friends, [Adolfo] López Mateos and Díaz Ordaz.[note 19] Adolfo López Mateos was the Mexican secretary of labor and social welfare from December 1952 to November 1957, and the president of Mexico from December 1958 to November 1964.

Yeah.

And we’ve got a . . . well, what’s the term? Simpatico.

All right, I’ll . . . do that. I talked to Rusk. Now, let me read you.

Uh-huh.

[Pause.] [reading aloud] “Secretary Rusk called yesterday morning, said he wants to pass on suggestions. He suggests that you send Vice President–elect Humphrey to Mexico City a little prior to December the 1st for the inauguration of Díaz Ordaz. He will have been at your ranch prior to that time. This would not set a precedent, because the close neighborly ties between Mexico and the United States would establish a very close tie—"

Yeah.

"—between our government and the new government right at the outset. He suggests that you send with him Senator [Bourke B.] Hickenlooper [R–Iowa] and Senator [Thomas H. “Tommy”] Kuchel [R–California].[note 20] Bourke B. Hickenlooper was a U.S. senator [R–Iowa] from January 1945 to January 1969; ranking Republican on Senate Foreign Relations Committee from 1963 to 1969; and chair of the Republic Policy Committee from January 1962 to January 1969. Thomas H. “Tommy” Kuchel was a U.S. senator [R–California] from January 1953 to January 1969, and Senate Minority Whip from January 1959 to January 1969. He has—Rusk has some thoughts giving him trouble about whether to add Wayne Morse because of the personal coolness between Hickenlooper and Morse.”

Yeah.

Now, that’s the memo that he sent, and I talked to Hubert about it a little yesterday, and that’s . . . I haven’t finalized anything, but if it . . . is there any reason why both of you can’t go?

No.

I think that y’all get along fine. And—

We do.

—you know them all, and I might tell Rusk that. What are we going to do about Morse?

Ah! I don’t know.

Think that over and I’ll talk to you again.

Yeah. Now, just a moment. Bob Kennedy just came in.

All right.

OK? [Pause.] OK?

Yes, sir.

Yeah. [shouting aside to Kennedy] Bob? [Pause.]

Hello?

By God, you learned how to smile in this campaign.

[chuckling] I told you. I did what you told me to do after you came up there.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I just picked up all the papers here and if you weren’t waving . . . you must think you’re going to be running up there a long time. I saw you smiling, waving with a bunch of kids.

No, you know what I was doing?

They’re not even registered.

I was just thinking of working with you.

And that made me smile.

[Laughs.] How you feeling?

All right. How ‘bout you?

It looks like you had a nice meeting with [Edward M.] Teddy [Kennedy] [D–Massachusetts].[note 21] Edward M. “Teddy” Kennedy was a U.S. senator [D–Massachusetts] from November 1962 until his death on 25 August 2009, and Senate Democratic Whip from January 1969 to January 1971.

Yeah, that was fine.

What’d you let him gut you that way for? He practically destroyed you in Massachusetts.

Of course he did. [Kennedy and Humphrey laugh.] And he brought up the seniority system.

[Laughs.] [Unclear.]

By God, he’s already throwing his weight around even before he gets out of the hospital.[note 22] Sen. Edward M. Kennedy [D–Massachusetts] had been injured in a 19 June 1964 plane crash that killed the pilot and injured two other passengers, Sen. Birch Bayh [D–Indiana] and Edward Moss, an administrative assistant to Sen. Kennedy, who later died from his injuries. The plane had been traveling to the Massachusetts Democratic convention. “Senator Kennedy Hurt in Air Crash; Bayh Injured, Too,” New York Times, 20 June 1964. Sen. Kennedy left the hospital on 16 December 1964. “Edward Kennedy Leaves Hospital, Walks Unaided,” New York Times, 17 December 1964.

I know. He’s impossible. But you know he won by almost a million up there? He ran almost as well as you.

Isn’t that wonderful? Well, now, you tell him I’m coming back to see him about three o’clock some morning.

[chuckling] Yeah, right.

[Laughs.] How did we do in Brooklyn [New York]? That trip hurt us much?

No, no. I think—I think it was terrific. [Humphrey laughs.] It really was terrific. Now, if you can do the Brooklyn Navy Yard as you promised us.

[Laughs heartily.] God, there you go!

Those goddamn Navy yards. I bet I never hear the last of them.

Listen, I counted up the promises I made during the campaign. There are 220. [President Johnson laughs.] If I have to tell—

Here—

But we have to chat.

You better promise Hubert something here, because he won’t—he may not recognize anybody up there but that preacher for the prayer. You may not even get recognized.

Hubert get on here with him.

[chuckling] Bob, how are you?

How are you, Hubert?

Fine. I’ll keep him reminded about that Navy yard. [Kennedy laughs and acknowledges.] Seems that—

Congratulations, though. That was terrific.

Yeah, it was wonderful, and I’m glad you and Teddy got together there.

Yeah.

Ted told me that he figured that the way to get elected [was to] just let the women do it. [Kennedy chuckles.] He said when he worked it over real hard he won by about 300,000. When he let [Joan] Joanie [Kennedy] do it, well, God, he won by a million.[note 23] Joan Kennedy (née Virginia Joan Bennett) was the wife of Edward M. Kennedy from 1958 to 1982.

Oh, I agree with that.

Somebody told me I ought to call you up and find out how to get them to concede early. [Kennedy and Humphrey chuckle softly.] How’d you get old [Kenneth B.] Keating [R–New York] to come out there and fold and give us that forced smile?[note 24] Kenneth B. Keating was a U.S. representative [R–New York] from January 1947 to January 1959; a U.S. senator [R–New York] from January 1959 to January 1965; U.S. ambassador to India from 1969 to 1972; and U.S. ambassador to Israel from August 1973 to May 1975.

How did you get old Senator Goldwater to run again?

Well, hell, he didn’t—Goldwater didn’t come till the next day. He waited 24 hours.[note 25] Goldwater did not concede the election until 4 November 1964.

Yeah, I know. Everybody was worried about who was ahead.

He got on there, and I lost my ratings. [Both chuckle.]

We were all concerned about it. You had a lot of sympathy [unclear]. You had a lot of sympathy.

Well, I’m going to need a hell of a lot, I’ll tell you that. I’ll be seeing you. Meantime, if you get any solution to Vietnam, just call me direct, will you?

[Chuckles.] I just talked to [Robert S.] Bob McNamara.[note 26] Robert S. “Bob” McNamara was president of Ford Motor Company from November 1960 to January 1961; U.S. secretary of defense from January 1961 to February 1968; and president of the World Bank from April 1968 to July 1981.

Yeah, yeah. Well, he’s the best one. You can’t beat him.

When are you coming back up?

The weekend.

I got a thought about that.

All right. I want to talk to you.

Maybe when I—when you’re up [unclear].

[Unclear] wonderful. I’ll give you a ring.

OK, sir.

All right. Give Ethel [S. Kennedy] my love.[note 27] Ethel S. Kennedy was the wife of Robert F. “Bobby” Kennedy from June 1950 until his assassination in June 1968.

Fine. Thank you.

Yeah, mine, too, Bob.

And, Mr. President, I’ll be in touch with you later.

What about . . . you . . . do you think you ought to keep Hubert out of the horses in the interest of the senators in the West, huh?

Yes, sir.

[chuckling] God dang it. Listen, Mike, I was good.

It’s a good image. He looks better in those western clothes.

How ‘bout that? Did that look pretty good?

Oh, you looked great.

They’re a little droopy there, but—

[Laughs.]

—you know, after all, it was—the President was the man that dressed me.

Give Maureen [Hayes Mansfield] my love. [note 28] Maureen Hayes Mansfield was the wife of Michael J. “Mike” Mansfield since 1932.

I will, indeed.

Good-bye.

And give our best to—

Mike—

—both families.

—congratulations to you, dear friend.

Well, I was lucky, but you fellows deserved it.

How did [Roland R.] Renne come out? [note 29] Roland R. Renne was a professor of agricultural economics; president of Montana State University from 1943 to February 1964; U.S. assistant secretary for international affairs in the Department of Agriculture from 1963 to 1964; director of the Office of Interior Water Resources Research in the U.S. Department of the Interior from 1964 to 1969; and the Democratic gubernatorial candidate for Montana in 1964.

Lost by 4,000.[note 30] Incumbent Republican governor Tim Babcock defeated Democratic challenger Roland Renne, who had been serving as the assistant secretary for international affairs in the U.S. Department of Agriculture, in the 1964 Montana gubernatorial race.

Oh gosh.

But . . . did the best we could.

Well, I—the last I saw he was ahead.

He was, he was, but some of those cow counties came in, and that’s what did it. But we came awfully close, but not close enough.

Well, I’ll be darned.

So—

What about—do you have a Republican congressman?

Yes. Came close to licking him, too, but not close enough. But the rest of the ticket we won.

OK, Mike.

OK, Mr. President. Thank you, sir.

Bye.

Bye, Hubert.

Bye, Mike. See you later.

Waiting. Waiting, waiting. Hello? Hello?