Hello? Mr. President—

Hi, Dick.

Mr. President, I just wanted to say hello to you.

Glad—I’m sorry I missed you yesterday. I—

Well, I know you’ve been pretty busy.

Well, I—no—

How’s Lady Bird [Johnson]?[note 1] Lady Bird Johnson (née Claudia Alta Taylor) was the wife of Lyndon B. Johnson since 1934, and first lady of the United States from November 1963 to January 1969.

Fine. I called my Attorney General [W. Ramsey Clark] last night and had a long talk with him about your problem.[note 2] W. Ramsey Clark was U.S. assistant attorney general from 1961 to 1965; U.S. deputy attorney general from January 1965 to March 1967; acting U.S. attorney general from November 1966 to March 1967; and U.S. attorney general from March 1967 to January 1969. [Daley acknowledges and attempts to interject throughout.] I had a note, when I got through. I had a real rough day yesterday. But today is going to be a quite light one, and I’m going to get caught up with everything. I use my Saturdays to get caught up.[note 3] The Presidential Recordings Program revised the following section of text in 2021 for inclusion in The LBJ Telephone Tapes, a project produced by the Miller Center in partnership with the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library to commemorate the library's 50th anniversary.

You know what I’m trying to do? These fellows that have been harassing you for a year and a half, I think we got the dope on them once and for all on a conspiracy to riot.

Mm-hmm.

And if the Attorney General [W. Ramsey Clark] goes along with it, I think we’ll expose the [Rennard C.] Rennie Davises, we’ll expose the [Thomas E. “Tom”] Haydens, we’ll expose the [Jerry C.] Rubins, we’ll expose the [unclear], we’ll expose the whole goddamn outfit on that Mobilization [President Johnson acknowledges throughout] for Peace in Vietnam [National Mobilization Committee to End the War in Vietnam].[note 4] Rennard C. “Rennie” Davis was an antiwar protester and member of Students for a Democratic Society, and one of the “Chicago Seven” who led antiwar demonstrators outside the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in 1968. Thomas E. “Tom” Hayden was a civil rights activist and freedom rider; president of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) from 1962 to 1963; and one of the “Chicago Seven” who led antiwar demonstrators outside the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in 1968. Jerry C. Rubin was an antiwar and social activist; the organizer of the Vietnam Day Committee; cofounder of the Youth International Party (YIP); and one of the “Chicago Seven” who led antiwar demonstrators outside the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in 1968. And we’ll also include some of [Eugene J. "Gene"] McCarthy’s [DFL–Minnesota] friends.[note 5] Eugene J. “Gene” McCarthy was a U.S. representative [DFL–Minnesota] from January 1949 to January 1959, and a U.S. senator [DFL–Minnesota] from January 1959 to January 1971. The Justice Department, under President Richard M. Nixon and Attorney General John N. Mitchell, obtained grand jury indictments against Rennie Davis, Tom Hayden, Jerry Rubin, and other prominent figures of the antiwar movement, charging them with conspiracy to incite a riot during the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. Together with David Dellinger, John Froines, Abbie Hoffman, Lee Weiner, and Bobby Seale, these men were known as the Chicago Eight. Dellinger chaired the National Mobilization Committee to End the War in Vietnam, nicknamed “the Mobe.” It is telling that Daley lumped them together with Sen. McCarthy, who had challenged LBJ in the New Hampshire Democratic primary before the President announced he would not seek reelection.

Yeah, yeah.

And the fellow himself, because if it were ever a planned thing on all these incidents affected you [President Johnson acknowledges] , when you moved around this country, this is it.

Yeah, yeah.

And they had the whole thing set for Johnson on Tuesday and Johnson on Wednesday.[note 6] The Democratic Convention in August 1968 had coincided with the President’s 60th birthday. He tentatively planned to give a speech to the delegates, but ultimately decided against it. [President Johnson acknowledges.] And we got the rawest deal, but I think we’re coming out. I don’t think they’re fooling the American people.

Well, I believe that you—the—that there’s been a great revulsion in the country as a result of your calling their hand. And I think the country is—for the first time has seen what the networks been doing, and what—

They did a good job on you.

—what these revolutionaries been doing. Now, did you see the story yesterday? They’re trying to cover it up now, but they violated a bunch of laws. They had hidden microphones in the platform committee.[note 7] NBC News issued a statement that “overzealous and over-eager employees, acting without authority” had secreted a microphone into a closed-door session of the Democratic Party’s platform committee during the Chicago convention. “Although no material obtained by this method was used in any way, NBC deeply regrets this occurrence. No such action is condoned or encouraged by NBC News or the management of the National Broadcasting Company.” See George Gent, “NBC Admits Bug in Democratic Platform Unit,” New York Times, 7 September 1968.

Yes. Our whole town was bugged, including my rooms and everything else. Everyone [unclear]—

Well, that’s just disgraceful. They ought to indict some folks on that. I told him last night that they ought to do that.

I don’t think there’s any doubt but what they should, Mr. President.

I noticed CBS [Columbia Broadcasting System] was down in Dallas [Texas], and they went to the same post office box that [Lee Harvey] Oswald had, and they rented a box down there, and—this goddamn [Walter L.] Cronkite [Jr.] crowd—and they wrote a letter to a[n] outfit up in Chicago [Illinois] trying to get a gun, and they were going to prove that you could mail-order guns, what all you could do.[note 8] Lee Harvey Oswald was an ex-Marine; a one-time defector to the Soviet Union; and the person charged with the assassination of President F. John Kennedy on 22 November 1963. Walter L. Cronkite Jr. was a television journalist and news anchor for CBS Evening News from 1962 to 1981. [Daley acknowledges throughout.] And they caught them in that, and they’ve exposed that now. It hasn’t been in the paper; I think it ought to be, but CBS—there’s a conspiracy between the two of them. I think you got some pinks operating both outfits.

I think you’re right, and I think it’s in the whole medium of communication, and I think they did a savage job on you and a[n] unfair job. They’ve been doing it for the last year and a half. But if the Attorney General would only stand up, we will turn up with a conspiracy on all—and show—and reveal it with documentation and with evidence and fact. We don’t want to go after anyone on a witch hunt. But gosh darn it, Mr. President, I think these people should be exposed to the entire nation, and show what you’ve been up against for the last year and a half when you go about this country.

Organized behind it—Commie—they tell me that this guy [David T.] Dellinger talked here on Tuesday, and they broadcast it into Miami [Florida] from Havana [Cuba] on Wednesday.[note 9] David T. Dellinger was a conscientious objector and antiwar activist, and one of the “Chicago Seven” who led antiwar demonstrators outside the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in 1968. We’re trying to get that through the U.S. Information Office, [President Johnson acknowledges throughout] the broadcast. Well, this has happened. Now, all of these guys who were leader[s] out here, contrary to the government, were in Hanoi.

Yeah, yeah.

Now, by God, if this is going to exist in our country, then I’m going to fight the damn thing, whether I ever hold office or go out of this—

Well, now, haven’t you had a pretty good reaction out there?

We got a terrific reaction. We published a—and I’m going to send you a copy of it—a strategy of confrontation, and we published it last night, in which it documents date, going back to November ’67, what they said they were going to do to Chicago.[note 10] End of 2021 revisions. They managed—

Dick, I told Peter Lisagor, who writes for the Chicago paper, that you didn’t demand this convention.[note 11] Peter Lisagor was the Washington bureau chief of the Chicago Daily News from 1959 to 1976, and president of the White House Correspondents’ Association from 1971 to 1972. You didn’t raise any hell about the convention. [Daley acknowledges.] There were three proposals to the convention. One of them was Miami. The arrangements committee said they didn’t want to go to Miami because it was a messy thing. They had a Republican governor, they didn’t know what’d happen, they stretched out all over the country, they had a lot of the luxury operation, and they couldn’t have the facilities they wanted. Then, the next one was Roy Hofheinz in Houston.[note 12] Roy M. Hofheinz was the mayor of Houston, Texas, from 1953 to 1955, and the driving force behind construction of the Houston Astrodome in 1962. And I just said that we thought that the President is from Texas, and that if they went to Texas, they’d just raise hell and try to create a big disturbance and everything else. So the committee told him they didn’t want it. So the third place was Chicago, but that you hadn’t forced anybody to come to Chicago.

No, I didn’t.

They were in trying to tell me that you had—I was your puppet, and you had made me come to Chicago. And I said, “Daley didn’t urge me to do it. He didn’t put any pressure on me one way or the other.”

That’s right.

I told Lisagor that yesterday.

Mm-hmm. Well, I think that—we’re coming—we’re going—we’re putting on a show a week from tomorrow—Sunday night—through WGN, but we’re getting all the independent stations all over the country that want to be a part of it [unclear]—[note 13] The Presidential Recordings Program revised the following section of text in 2021 for inclusion in The LBJ Telephone Tapes, a project produced by the Miller Center in partnership with the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library to commemorate the library's 50th anniversary.

Dick, have you got any pictures of this crowd that they didn’t use, that you can show, [Daley attempts to interject] that here’s what they were chanting, and here’s what they were saying? And—

Yeah, we—

—and they wouldn’t use them?

Isn’t it amazing thing, Mr. President? No medium carried a picture, when they had them, of them lowering the American flag and burning it. And, you see, what happened there, some of our fellows that are policemen have sons in Vietnam. Some of them lost their boys. So anyone with any American blood, when he saw that, they went in—and goddamn it, I’d stand behind them until the end. And they whacked the hell out of them and raised the Am—they raised the Vietcong flag. Our fellows tore it down [President Johnson acknowledges] and raised the American flag. But there wasn’t a picture anyplace shown. [President Johnson attempts to interject.] We’re going to show that.[note 14] End of 2021 revisions. We’re going to show it on this show a week from Sunday.

That’s good. That’s good. That’s—

None of them showed the confrontation of the police. We saved Dr. [Ralph D.] Abernathy, but he won’t admit it—and his mule team.[note 15] Dr. Ralph Abernathy was a minister at Hunter Street Baptist Church and vice president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC). Abernathy was also one of Martin Luther King’s closest colleagues in the civil rights movement, their relationship solidifying during the Montgomery Bus Boycott in 1955–56. Abernathy, head of SCLC following King’s assassination on 4 April 1968, had a “mule train—three covered wagons carrying poor people, each wagon pulled by two mules” headed toward the Democratic convention on 28 August 1968. That same night, antiwar demonstrators blocked Michigan Avenue at Balbo Drive, placing themselves inadvertently in the mule train’s path. “Police induced the demonstrators to clear a way for the mule train,” the Chicago Tribune reported. Abernathy decided to divert his demonstration from Michigan Avenue altogether. “A few minutes later, police marched on the intersection,” the Tribune reported. “Cops, Hippies War in Street: Scores Hurt in Battle on Michigan Ave.,” Chicago Tribune, 29 August 1968. He rushed to the commander and he said, “Please get my people out of here. These men are wild terrorists, and they’re going to tear the Conrad Hilton down.” This was the occasion at Balbo and Michigan, and believe it or not, Mr. President, that only lasted 18 minutes. And they marched down the street, linked arms, and there was never a picture of them marching down the street, all the way across Michigan Avenue, linked arms, and then they sat in the center of the street.[note 16] The Presidential Recordings Program revised the following section of text in 2021 for inclusion in The LBJ Telephone Tapes, a project produced by the Miller Center in partnership with the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library to commemorate the library's 50th anniversary.

And in one picture—they printed “Police Brutality”—the policeman was hitting the fellow with a baton, and the fellow had—was biting his leg. He bit a big chunk of flesh out of the poor policeman’s leg. [The] fellow went to the hospital. This was brutality. Another one, a girl and a boy injured, and the father called me up personally. “Goddamn it, Mayor,” he said, “what kind of people we got? Your police saved my daughter and my son from being killed by a windowpane that was broken in by these terrorists. They weren’t in—they weren’t hippies. They weren’t in this crowd. And for them to print pictures that this is another example of police brutality is the most shocking thing to me. I’ve telegrammed. I’ve called them.” And he said, “Goddamn it, they better retract it.”[note 17] End of 2021 revisions.

And these kids, they’re—they got some [chuckling] 40-year-old kids, 50-year-old kids.

Well, Mr. President, 643 were arrested, and 200 were less than 21 years of age. And of the 643, 150 lived in Chicago. Eleven of them lived out of the country. We got a tape on an editor from a Toronto paper in which he’s up denouncing the Johnson administration, the Daley, and the establishment, and said he’d join the hippies, and he’d take part in the march that would march to the amphitheater and disrupt the convention. This is a guy from Toronto. Doesn’t even live in our country.

Mm-hmm.[note 18] The Presidential Recordings Program revised the following section of text in 2021 for inclusion in The LBJ Telephone Tapes, a project produced by the Miller Center in partnership with the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library to commemorate the library's 50th anniversary.

So we’ve got to think if we just get a little help from our friend [Ramsey Clark] down there, and he doesn’t get too—

Well, he doesn’t see this as you and I see it—

No, no.

—and we just—I just worked on him a long time last night and told him that I wanted—

He doesn’t see it the way his daddy [Tom C. Clark] would see it, either.[note 19] Attorney General Ramsey Clark’s father was Tom C. Clark, a justice appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court by President Harry S. Truman in 1949. When his son became Attorney General in 1967, Justice Clark retired from the Court.

No, not at all. Not at all.[note 20] End of 2021 revisions. [Daley acknowledges.] That’s the thing. We may have a blow-up on that.

And some of our candidates are weak, too, on this thing. [President Johnson acknowledges.] They’re talking out of both sides of their mouths.

That’s right.

I’m for them winning. I’ll do anything. But goddamn it, in my opinion, in this business you have to stand up for principle when you see it, whether you win or lose an election.

You’ve got to. I’ll tell you one that’s not weak is old man [Everett M.] Dirksen [R–Illinois].[note 21] Everett M. Dirksen was a U.S. senator [R–Illinois] from January 1951 until his death in September 1969, and Senate Minority Leader from January 1959 to September 1969.

Who?

Old man Dirksen. [speaking over Daley] He was in pounding the table and he said, “I’m a Daley man.” By God, he stood up. And I—

He stood up like a—

He got to do it. He didn’t run a bit.

He didn’t run, and that’s his makeup, and he’s a hell of a guy. And let’s not kid ourselves. You’ve always said that, and we can’t dispute it. He doesn’t run. He just stands and takes his position.

What specifically do you want this fellow to do that he’s not doing now?

Just as long as he does not interfere with the fellow that—

Well, we called the FBI last night. You’ve got to make your fellows get along with them as well as you can. They say they got 700 people to interview. They’ve got 400 already interviewed. [Daley acknowledges.] Clark says it’ll take four weeks, that he’s told them they’ve got to have an answer in four weeks.

Well, you see, the only thing is—and you’d stop that—he gave the order last week only on police brutality, [President Johnson acknowledges throughout] and then they came to the policemen, and it was an insult to them, Mr. President. They wanted them to send—sign an affidavit under the Esposito and Miranda case, which says you’re entitled to a lawyer when you’re being charged with a crime, and I told them to tell them to go to hell. And if this was their idea—but we worked it out locally. Our corporation counsel talked to the district attorney; the district attorney talked to the FBI man. The FBI man is a very good man. He said, “I’m under direct instruction, but I agree with you. I don’t want to be going to policemen and asking them to sign a[n] affidavit that you do as a criminal.”

He said, “What the hell? We’re cooperating.” And he said, “There might be excess—" But what are you going to do if someone hits you with human manure in the face? You going to stand there? [President Johnson acknowledges.] Or hits you with human—see, they were throwing bags of manure in the face. They were throwing bags of urine. And then they were calling—you should know the language, Mr. President.

Oh, I know it. I know it.

All night until four o’clock—words that you wouldn’t repeat, you know?

I know it. That’s right.

And here’s the guy [Abbot H. “Abbie” Hoffman] that’s on [John V.] Lindsay’s payroll, walking around here for four days with F-U-C-K on his forehead.[note 22] Abbot H. “Abbie” Hoffman was a social revolutionary; cofounder of the Youth International Party (YIP); and one of the Chicago Seven who led antiwar demonstrators outside the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in 1968. John V. Lindsay was a U.S. representative [R–New York] from January 1959 to December 1965, and mayor of New York from January 1966 to December 1973. In 1971, Lindsay became a Democrat.

Yeah. Yeah.

And he’s still on the payroll. Hoffman and [unclear] and all of them and—you know what I think? I think they’re getting money from the OEO [U.S. Office of Economic Opportunity].

Well, I wish you’d prove that. Now, you see what we’ve done down here. I made them turn over those records. You’ve been telling me all the time about that organization, but I made them turn them over to the McClellan Committee yesterday.[note 23] Sen. John L. McClellan [D–Arkansas] chaired the Select Committee on Improper Activities in Labor and Management from its creation in January 1957 until March 1960, when the Senate dissolved the committee and transferred its authority to the Government Operations subcommittee on investigations.

Oh, I’m glad you did, because this has been the one thing that’s been concerning me all over the country. They’ve used this money, and some people say that they got a lot of the cash—they were cashing $100 bills—they got it from Lindsay. And they say that a lot of those OEO people were out here and their expenses was paid. He admitted that this one fellow, Hoffman, is still on his payroll, and he’s going to keep him on the payroll. So I don’t know how the hell we reach into that, but I’m convinced that the whole setup in New York is a payoff. They’re paying tribute for peace, and they’ve got your whole OEO ridden with directors of those non-for-profit corporations, getting 10[000] to 15,000 [dollars] a year for not doing a goddamn thing. The only thing they’re doing is buying these civil rights leaders so that they’re supposedly keeping [unclear].

I think that’s right. I think that’s exactly right. And I think that [R. Sargent] Shriver and [Robert F.] Bobby [Kennedy] set that damn thing up as a political organization—[note 24] R. Sargent Shriver was director of the Peace Corps from March 1961 to February 1966; director of the Office of Economic Opportunity from October 1964 to March 1968; and U.S. ambassador to France from April 1968 to March 1970. Robert F. “Bobby” Kennedy was U.S. attorney general from January 1961 to September 1964, and a U.S. senator [D–New York] from January 1965 until his assassination in June 1968.

[speaking over President Johnson] They did things in that office you’re talking about. They haven’t been with you since 1963. They were never with you.

I think that’s right.

And they’ve undermined and undercut, and the whole goddamn outfit is—and I don’t understand this fell—present fellow [Bertrand M. “Bert” Hardin], that’s father is a hell of a guy, that he can’t see what they’ve been doing to you for the last three or four years.[note 25] Bertrand M. “Bert” Harding was deputy commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service from 1961 to 1966; deputy director of the Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO) from 1966 to 1968; acting director of OEO from 1968 to 1969; and associate administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration from 1970 to 1973. And we talked about that. Goddamn it, it’s a disgrace. Half those guys down there showed us they’re not on your team, never were on your team.

That’s right.

But I think, with the help of God, we’re going to come out all right. And first—no one points it out—we didn’t lose a life. We didn’t have anyone shot, and I think this was a great tribute to the police department and to everyone else, I think. CBS moved half of its equipment from the amphitheater to the Conrad Hilton at four o’clock that afternoon, anticipating this trouble. And they knew that the trouble was going to be—see, they couldn’t make it out to—the idea was to go to the amphitheater and then go through our neighborhood, and God love them—we’re just humble people, Mr. President, but we had your picture and the American flag all the way down the different streets—and I knew that if they went out there, our kids wouldn’t stand for it, because some of them have come back, and they’d wale into those guys. There’d be a hell of a squabble.

And then they wanted to—they had the plan to tear down the fence, and then rushing in. And the delegates of New York and California and Wisconsin were a part of it, including New Hampshire. They were to create the trouble inside; the other guys were to tear the fence down outside. And this was all in their plans, and we got the whole goddamn thing written out. All someone has to do is sit down and look at it.

Well, I want to see your film. When’s it going to be on?

We’ll be on a week from tomorrow night.

Yeah. Don’t you let them get you on one of these damn panels that just raise hell.

[speaking over President Johnson] Oh, hell, I wouldn’t. That’s for the birds.

That’s good for Cronkite. You just ruined Cronkite, you did—

We had a hell of a time getting that tape. They didn’t want to give it to us. And I sent them a letter demanding it. They didn’t want to give us that interview with Cronkrite—Cron—or what the hell his name is. We’re going to put it into the thing next week, and they said no at first. And then I said, “Well, this is a fine goddamn quasipublic organization. You say no to free time, and now all I want is a copy of the tape that I participated in, and your answer is no?” Well, they had to talk to their lawyers. And they talked to their lawyers, and I said, “Well, if you don’t demand—if you don’t do it, I’ll go into the FCC, and goddamn it, I’ll get it someplace.” So they finally—last night they agreed to give us a copy of it. But this is an arrogant outfit that will—they won’t even give you a copy of a tape?

I think you ought to have somebody raising hell about them putting bugs around, NBC. I think it’ll just prejudice the country against them. And you ought to have some citizens giving out interviews about—

Well, I think [unclear] should follow it up and ask that warrants be issued, as you say, [President Johnson acknowledges] through the Justice Department.[note 26] Daley seems to say “Hal” or “Hale.” I think that this is another place where [Ramsey] Clark has to act. Our fellow out here will act, goddamn it. He’s a little—not a little—he’s a small man. He was a naval bomber during World War II and had about four and a half years of service, and the fellow was making, I told you, $75[000] to $100,000 a year as a lawyer, so he don’t give a damn about the job, and Clark knows it. He just went in there—

Well, get him a good fellow to advise him, and then [unclear]—

Now, they were talking about appointing some special assistant—Clark—to send [President Johnson acknowledges throughout] him out here. Well, the guys he’s talking to are all tied up with the opposition. So we don’t want that.

No, no. If we get a special assistant, we get one out there.

Yeah. Well, it’s nice to talk to you.

All right. Thank you, Mayor.

How are you keeping your chin up? All right?

[Chuckles.] Pretty good.

The hell with them! [President Johnson chuckles quietly.] You’re doing a good job, and you’ve done a good job.

Thank you.

We’re going to—if we can get a little help, we’ll expose these people for the first time, and we’ll tell the whole story about yourself and what they’ve been doing.

Thank you, Mayor.

All right. See you. Say hello to Lady Bird.

I’ll do it.