—education revolts that they’ve got with all the Protestants?

Well, I, yesterday, was told about it by Bill Moyers and then last night, I talked to [Anthony J.] Tony Celebrezze.[note 1] Bill Moyers was deputy director of the Peace Corps from 1961 to 1964; special assistant to the president from 1963 to 1967; White House press secretary from 1965 to 1967; and publisher of Newsday from 1967 to 1970. Anthony J. “Tony” Celebrezze, a former mayor of Cleveland, Ohio, was U.S. secretary of health, education, and welfare from July 1962 to August 1965; became a judge for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit in September 1965; achieved senior status in 1980; and served as a senior judge until his death on 29 October 1998. I contacted him about 6:00, and he didn’t think things were out of hand, but I told him that I’d heard it was pretty bad.

I talked to him 10:00. What we got to do is get to the people that are causing it some way, or the people that are listening to it.

Yes.

Now, you got a liberal congressman from California. [President Johnson speaks aside to someone in the background, then returns to the phone.] [James C.] Corman [D–California] of California.[note 2] James C. Corman was a U.S. representative [D–California] from January 1961 to January 1981.

Mm-hmm.

C-O-R-M-A-N.

Yeah.

And you got Ms. [Edith L. S.] Green [D–Oregon] [Humphrey acknowledges] and it’s a pure church and state thing.[note 3] Edith L. S. Green was a U.S. representative [D–Oregon] from January 1955 to December 1974.

Well, she stirred this up.

Well, she does always, but she has shaken a good many of them and you’re going to—we’re going to get in trouble with our bill with this amendment with the [unclear], and with other things. She is sitting in, openly, with the head of the Republican Committee, this New York [Charles E. “Charlie”] Goodell [R–New York].[note 4] Charles E. “Charlie” Goodell was a U.S. representative [R–New York] from May 1959 to September 1968, and a U.S. senator [R–New York] from September 1968 to January 1971.

Yeah.

They appointed him as kind of the propaganda artist and he’s not the policy man, but—what’s the new committee they’ve set Goodell up on?

That I—

It’s research and . . . research. He’s the head of the research group for the Republican policy group.

I see. I see.

And they appointed him because they had nothing but reactionaries. [Humphrey acknowledges throughout.] So, he has got her and Corman and three or four working with them, and they’ve got all of our Protestant group that I’m not seeing, and I assume that [unclear] too busy to see them.[note 5] President Johnson may have said “they’re.” And I don’t believe any of our people are really working at them. I told [Douglass] Doug Cater to try to get with one or two today, but their principal, basic argument is that a Catholic oughtn’t have a pencil or a tablet, or that maybe some priest might come in and talk to them, and I don’t know how we can avoid a Jew or Catholic or anybody else coming in, and we got it under the public educational authorities, but I guess that even the klansmen can come in sometimes in this country, and—but she’s being mighty mean and vicious and they say the reason is because Morris gave out an ill-advised statement that he was strong for the bill, and she hates Morris![note 6] Douglass Cater was a special assistant to the president from 1964 to 1968, specializing in Health, Education, and Welfare.

That’s right.

[John W.] McCormack [D–Massachusetts] can’t do much with her.[note 7] John W. McCormack was a U.S. representative [D–Massachusetts] from January 1928 to January 1971, and Speaker of the House from January 1961 to January 1971. [Carl B.] Albert [D–Oklahoma] knows the Protestant groups, and is a pretty leading Protestant.[note 8] Carl B. Albert was a U.S. representative [D–Oklahoma] from January 1947 to January 1977, and served as Speaker of the House from January 1971 to January 1977. I don’t know whether you have any connections with it or not, but [Humphrey acknowledges] , if you can, I would like for you to spend some time with whoever can talk to Corman and—

I can talk with him, Mr. President.

Well, I would [Humphrey attempts to interject] sure talk to him, and just say that this columnist—I don’t know how I’d get to it, but I’d say that the newspapermen are saying Goodell is getting some folks together and that they kind of—Republicans are getting some of our people together and trying to bust up a bill that was unanimously reported, and that whole basis of this administration depends on it.

Mm-hmm.

Now, we are starting to work on our legislative program for next year. Builds you a record to run on. But I want to emphasize with you that the security council and Malcom X’s funerals and space council and presiding and everything else is important, and we believe in that poverty, and civil rights and, particularly, your mayors.[note 9] Malcolm X was a Muslim leader and civil rights activist. [Humphrey acknowledges.] I’ve counted up, to give to—some reporters been asking me assignments that you have. You have more than any man ever had except [John Nance] Garner, and more than Garner, but the one that Garner had—and the only vice president that I’ve ever looked at that had any influence was Garner.[note 10] John Nance Garner was a U.S. representative [D–Texas] from March 1903 to March 1933; House Minority Leader from March 1929 to March 1931; Speaker of the House from December 1931 to March 1933; and vice president of the United States from March 1933 to January 1941. I had none, because [John F.] Kennedy wouldn’t give me any.[note 11] John F. “Jack” Kennedy was a U.S. representative [D–Massachusetts] from January 1947 to January 1953; a U.S. senator [D–Massachusetts] from January 1953 to December 1960; and president of the United States from January 1961 until his assassination on 22 November 1963. He didn’t just assign it to me. I want to make it clear here and now, and once and for all, and even if it made a break between us, where we split wide open, your number one responsibility in my administration comes even ahead of McCormack, [Michael J. “Mike”] Mansfield [D–Montana], anybody else.[note 12] Michael J. “Mike” Mansfield was a U.S. senator [D–Montana] from January 1953 to January 1977, and Senate Majority Leader from January 1961 to January 1977. I expect you to be my liaison with both of them, and to speak with authority with both of them and get the line down here what it is, and then, as you said in your speeches, come back down here with the message, because I think the vice president is peculiarly equipped because a) he has the legislative training, he has the contacts, he has the power to make a speech for them, he’s on the ticket. He’s only one of two elected. He’s there with them. The president can’t go see him. Hell, I’d love to. I don’t even go to a dedication of gymnasium, although I think I’m going to. But I want to go eat with Allie Nelder. I want to go to Albert [R.] Thomas’s.[note 13] Albert R. Thomas was a U.S. representative [D–Texas] from January 1937 to February 1966. I want to go to the Texas delegation. That’s where I want to be every day. [Humphrey acknowledges.] I don’t want to be sitting down here receiving the ambassador from Ghana and spending all day down here. But I can’t do it. But the vice president can. Now, some presidents get jealous of the vice president participating in these acts. I think that education bill is 51 percent yours. I think that Appalachian bill next Tuesday is 49 percent yours. It’s Johnson, Humphrey; or Kennedy, Johnson, and it’s split half and half. Just as much as you and Muriel [Humphrey] own that home.[note 14] Muriel Humphrey (née Buck) was the wife of Hubert H. Humphrey Jr.; second lady of the United States from January 1965 to January 1969; and a U.S. senator [D–Minnesota] from January 1978 to November 1978. [Humphrey acknowledges.] And I want them to understand it and I want you to understand it and I want you to act accordingly, because you just get your chart and get those 104 bills and you just watch them like a hawk. Because if you’re successful, even when we lose, of knowing that we were voting, and why we were voting, and who was wrong, even if we lose them all, you will be a successful vice president because the only man that I ever knew that was, was Garner. Garner could run the Senate. He had the power where they would follow him and do what he wanted to, and he could talk to Rayburn and run the House, and he did. And [Franklin D.] Roosevelt passed all of his stuff.[note 15] Franklin D. Roosevelt was assistant secretary of the U.S. Navy from March 1913 to August 1920; the Democratic governor of New York from January 1929 to December 1932; and president of the United States from March 1933 until his death on 12 April 1945. And Roosevelt and [Thomas G. “Tommy the Cork”] Tommy Corcoran got the credit.[note 16] Thomas G. “Tommy the Cork” Corcoran was a legal and political adviser to Franklin D. Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson. You never have heard of old man Garner, but I stood here and watched it every damn day. And that’s what I want you to do. [Humphrey acknowledges.]

Now, Kennedy felt if I did it, then I would be—they’d say I was the master craftsman, and that so forth. So, he told the Catholics and Mike and them to pay no attention to me and to come down here. Now, they don’t have to do that. You can negotiate with Mike. You can negotiate with Russell [B.] Long [D–Louisiana].[note 17] Russell B. Long was a U.S. senator [D–Louisiana] from December 1948 to January 1987, and the son of former Louisiana governor and senator Huey P. Long Jr. You can negotiate with McCormack, and Albert, and Green, and Morris, and all the rest of them, and let them know that you’re speaking for the President. And let them know that we work through the leaders—we’re for them—but this is a dual operation. And put that up as the highest thing, because what we’re going to, we’re not going to them on how well the Peace Corps did, or how well even the poverty did, or how well even . . . the meetings we have over here. What we’re going to the folks with four years from now, that all you young men will be going with: Did we pass Appalachia? [Humphrey acknowledges.] What is our program? Have we got a foreign bill? Have we got Appalachia? Have we got a school bill? Have we got a health bill? Is medical care out? What did they do? Here’s what they promised. So we got to pass it. Now, that’s number one.

That’s right.

That’s your wife. Then you can go down to your aunts and your cousins and later and the second things you can do is all this travel USA and I want you to do all of them because I want to have it running out of your damned ears. But the first thing I want is legislative, and everybody is at your disposal on legislative. Now, they’ll shove you off because they want to talk to the President direct. [Humphrey acknowledges.] And they all want him to call them direct. I haven’t called a human up there this year. I’m not calling them on any bill. I never talked to one on Appalachia. I want you to be walking down the halls, though, and sitting in the gallery and being on the floor and talking to them and having the administrative assistants telling you what’s happening and getting the gossip. And I don’t want you to have to talk to Celebrezze, because he really doesn’t know what’s going on. I talked to him 9:00. This meeting was going on yesterday.

That’s right.

And I [unclear] Carl Albert, but he was in Tennessee.[note 18] President Johnson may have said “shooked up.” And I [unclear] McCormack, and he didn’t know anything about it.[note 19] President Johnson may have said “shooked.” And no one knew what was really going on and the goddamn damage is done and the body is dead and the pulse has quit beating before we find out about it. So what we’ve got to do is just stay right on it. You got to give [unclear], you got to watch these things, you got—Old lady Green, Lady Bird [Johnson] just took her to Florida.[note 20] Lady Bird Johnson (née Claudia Alta Taylor) was the wife of Lyndon B. Johnson since 1934, and first lady of the United States from November 1963 to January 1969. I’ve taken her all over the country. I’ve had her down here, I’ve bragged on her, but she is just a mean woman. And she’s going to whip you and if she does, why, then I’m going to put you in [Humphrey attempts to interject] the five-cent cigar business like [Thomas R.] Marshall or [T.] Woodrow Wilson.[note 21] Thomas R. Marshall was the Democratic governor of Indiana from January 1909 to January 1913, and vice president of the United States from March 1913 to March 1921. T. Woodrow Wilson was president of Princeton University from 1902 to 1910; the Democratic governor of New Jersey from January 1911 to March 1913; and president of the United States from March 1913 to March 1921. That’s what happened to him, you know, with his League of Nations. [Humphrey acknowledges.] And we just can’t. We’re smarter than they are. We got more energy, we can work faster, we got all the machinery of the government. Conner can call the Republicans if you need to. [C. Douglas] Dillon can call Republicans if you need to.[note 22] C. Douglas Dillon was U.S. secretary of the treasury from January 1961 to April 1965. We got two of them. Somebody ought to honor Ogden [R.] Reid [R–New York] for going to bat.[note 23] Ogden R. Reid was a U.S. representative [R–New York] from January 1963 to March 1972 and [D–New York] from March 1972 to January 1975. Somebody ought to give him a good speech. Somebody ought to honor that other guy from California, Republican, going to bat. Somebody’s got to brag on old Powell now. [Humphrey acknowledges.] And—but, if they beat that educational bill, we’ve had it. It’s like the court bill of Roosevelt’s. It’s a basic thing, and if we don’t pass anything but education and medical care and Appalachia, we’ve had a record that the congressmen can be reelected on.

Well, Mr. President, I’ll go right up there and be right on them all afternoon.

Well, I just—

I guarantee you that. And we—

You just be on them the next four years. [speaking over Humphrey] You just say that you’re the first vice president in the country that had responsibility for the—I don’t care if it’s the Humphrey–Johnson program. I want it to be ours jointly [Humphrey acknowledges] , and when we send a message up there, I’ll do whatever my Cabinet will do, but from then on, it’s yours until I get it back.

Yes, sir.

And these boys will help you and they’ll help you and you just have see who’s pouting. Have to tell us how to—what we can do to correct it. And you have to get [Dean] Rusk to go see [J. William] Bill Fulbright [D–Arkansas] if he’s pouting or whatever it is.[note 24] Dean Rusk was U.S. secretary of state from January 1961 to January 1969. J. William “Bill” Fulbright was a U.S. senator [D–Arkansas] from January 1945 to December 1974, and chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee from January 1959 to December 1974. But we just got to get this legislative program through, and I would say about—if you can get any kind of farm bill, the Peace Corps and poverty and them, I think, will go. But if we got Appalachia now, if we get education now, if we get medical care now, then we got the running gears, and we can elect these boys.

Yes, sir.

But if we don’t, they say his farm program was a flop.[note 25] The Presidential Recordings Program revised the following section of text in 2021 for inclusion in The LBJ Telephone Tapes, a project produced by the Miller Center in partnership with the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library to commemorate the library's 50th anniversary. And in talking to groups, I wouldn’t say we got 104 bills. I’d say, “What we’re really shooting at, we’ve got the good program, and everybody puts more on their platform than they can do. What we want to do is take care of this unemployment where it’s really distressed, and that’s Appalachia. We’ll do it. The next thing we want to do is get these people who can’t read and write, we want to educate them, and make taxpayers out of them instead of tax-eaters. That’s education; we’ve solved that. The next thing’s health. Now, that’s basic.” That’s what I’m after, Humphrey. That’s my program. Then the other [slight chuckle] hundred will be incidental, so if you don’t get any but those three—

Now, we’re going to get them. I went up 500 million [dollars] on this health, extry. So don’t ever argue with me: I’ll go 100 million [dollars] or a billion on health or education. I don’t argue about that any more than I argue about Lady Bird [Johnson] buying flour. You got to have flour and coffee in your house. And [on] education and health, I’ll spend the goddamn money. I may cut back some tanks, but not on health. So, that’s the go sign I gave them.[note 26] End of 2021 revisions. And—but, education is about to be defeated, and will be defeated by this old woman, unless she meets some opposition. And Carl’s in Tennessee. John’s a Catholic that can’t do it. Doug Cater, I’m not sure has really known how to trade and work around. And some of these boys on the committee that are Protestants have got to know that this is what’s going to reelect them.

Yes, sir.

And that every place you go, when you mention education, that’s the most popular thing. And I’d just propagandize the hell out of it, and I’d tell my staff, I’d tell my friends, I’d tell my family, that you’re not exactly emulating Garner, but the last time a great program was put on the books in this country, he put it on. Whatever else they say about him, he’s [unclear]. He damn sure passed the stock exchange and the Holding Company Act and the Agricultural Adjustment Act and the NRA and everything else. And he was standing there. And he’s [unclear] with him on the court. [Humphrey acknowledges.] And he went back to [unclear]. But they’ve never let a vice president—[Henry A.] Wallace didn’t have one senator.[note 27] Henry A. Wallace was U.S. secretary of agriculture from March 1933 to September 1940; vice president of the United States from January 1941 to January 1945; and U.S. secretary of commerce from March 1945 to September 1946. He came to me for advice, and I said, “The first thing I’d do is get acquainted with one senator.” He said, well, he knew Claude [D.] Pepper [D–Florida] pretty well.[note 28] Claude D. Pepper was a U.S. senator [D–Florida] from November 1936 to January 1951, and a U.S. representative [D–Florida] from January 1963 to January 1989. [Humphrey acknowledges.] I said, “Well, Claude Pepper’s with you on everything anyway. Now, you get Claude Pepper to introduce you to a bunch of these senators and before you go out and make speeches”—he was wanting to go all over the country and take the issue to the country, I said, “you take the issue right there in the Senate!” And—but poor fellow, that was his problem. Then we came along and [Richard M.] Dick Nixon tried to make out like he had something, but no one cut his guts out and [Dwight D.] Eisenhower cut his guts out and didn’t want Nixon to have any power.[note 29] Richard M. “Dick” Nixon was a U.S. representative [R–California] from January 1947 to December 1950; a U.S. senator [R–California] from December 1950 to January 1953; U.S. vice president from January 1953 to January 1961; GOP nominee for president in 1960; GOP candidate for governor of California in 1962; and U.S. president from January 1969 to August 1974. Dwight D. Eisenhower was a five-star general of the U.S. Army; governor of the American Zone of Occupied Germany from May 1945 to November 1945; chief of staff of the U.S. Army from November 1945 to February 1948; Supreme Allied Commander in Europe from April 1951 to May 1952; president of Columbia University from 1948 to 1953; and president of the United States from January 1953 to January 1961. And although Nixon bragged about how he ran everything, and so forth, if you look at these confidential records down here, they treated Nixon just like he wasn’t here. And Eisenhower said he’d think a few weeks, and then he’d tell him what he did, if he had a few weeks to figure it out. So Nixon. I came along, and they didn’t want me to touch a legislative thing. Foreign aid, they asked me one time to switch [Thomas J.] Tom Dodd, which I did.[note 30] Thomas J. “Tom” Dodd was a U.S. senator [D–Connecticut] from January 1959 to January 1971, and a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. [Humphrey acknowledges.] And outside of that, that’s all.[note 31] The Presidential Recordings Program revised the following section of text in 2021 for inclusion in The LBJ Telephone Tapes, a project produced by the Miller Center in partnership with the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library to commemorate the library's 50th anniversary. Now, the sky’s the limit for you. There are 104 bills, and they’re all yours and mine on the ticket, because that’s what we ran on; that’s our platform; that’s our program. You’re half of it, and you’re there every day. And you just help us if you can. And when you get it passed—then ’62 [sic], when you go out and speak, you can say, “We passed education. We passed Appalachia. We passed medical care.” And if you give me those, I’ll get—I’ll have a majority two years from now.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

OK.[note 32] End of 2021 revisions.

Did you get my reports on some of the things—

Yes, sir, I went over all of them. And I’m proud of them. But this is the stud duck. [Humphrey acknowledges throughout.] And when we get that done, you can go talk about what you have done. But until we get it done, let’s put everything else secondary. I’ve been here since [the] first of the year. I want to go home. I’m just dying to go home. But I don’t dare go home with this education bill like it is. I want to go this weekend. I’m just scared to death that that woman is going to beat me.[note 33] Johnson is likely referring to U.S. Representative Edith L. S. Green [D–Oregon]. I didn’t dare do it when [the] Appalachia [bill] was there. I talked to [Robert E.] Bob Jones [Jr.] [D–Alabama] every day.[note 34] Robert E. “Bob” Jones Jr. was a U.S. representative [D–Alabama] from January 1947 to January 1963 and January 1965 to January 1977. And I don’t dare do it with my gold-cover bill. But they’re bogged down. The House had nothing this week, all goddamn week. Now, that’s—you and Bill Moyer[s] and [Lawrence F.] Larry O’Brien [Jr.] have got to find something for them.[note 35] Lawrence F. “Larry” O’Brien Jr. was special assistant to the president for congressional affairs from 1961 to 1965; U.S. postmaster general from November 1965 to April 1968; and chair of the Democratic National Convention from 1968 to 1969 and 1970 to 1972.

Well—

You got to get the [J. W. Wright] Patmans [D–Texas] to get some bills out there for them.[note 36] J. W. Wright Patman was a U.S. representative [D–Texas] from March 1929 to March 1976, and chair of the House Banking and Currency Committee from January 1965 to January 1975. They had not one thing all week.

Well, I—

And the Senate had nothing. So we just wasted three weeks with [Abraham] Lincoln’s and [George] Washington’s birthday, then we just wasted this week.[note 37] Abraham Lincoln was a U.S. representative [W–Illinois] from March 1847 to March 1849, and president of the United States from March 1861 until his assassination in April 1865. George Washington was a Virginia delegate to the First Continental Congress; commander-in-chief of the Continental Army from June 1775 to December 1783; and president of the United States from April 1789 to March 1797. Now, we’re in here in the middle of—we are the first week in March, and we have just got to get these things passed. They’re having hearings on immigration, but that’s got to be one we get reported pretty quick.

Yes, sir.

And that’s a basic one. But the ones that I’m really interested in . . . [Humphrey acknowledges] my flour and coffee and sugar. That’s three things you got to have.

Yes, sir.

One of them’s education, one of them’s medical care, and one of them’s Appalachia. Now, I got Appalachia. And you can get education next week. If you get it . . . if you get these Protestant groups where they just hold. They’re already committed. And I had them down here the other day, and they just cheered and everything else when I made a little speech to them. But if they hold, and you can get a rule out of [Howard “Judge”] Smith [D–Virginia], if you can’t, you take it up anyway.[note 38] Howard “Judge” Smith was a U.S. representative [D–Virginia] from March 1931 to January 1967, and chair of the House Rules Committee from January 1955 to January 1967. We pass the House. They’ll pass it in the Senate without any trouble.

Yes, sir.

Then we’ll have education. And I think the medical care will go through like a dose of salt through a widow woman. But the education is going to be the key one, and then we’ve got to work on individual ones. You got to look each week and say, “What is the Senate doing in committee this week and when will it be through? What is the House doing?” And sit down with Larry without offending him. If I call up—Larry called and wants to know what I said to McCormack. So you got to just be running into these guys in the halls and going over there and having a drink with them in the evening, and making Carl Albert come meet you to drink. At a little education office. That’s where they pour out their heart. That’s where the parliamentarian comes. And McCormack will come if he knows you’re going to be there at 5:30, 6 [o’clock] and then it’s got to be informal so Larry doesn’t get his tail up. And you got to kind of be helping Larry and tell him reports. It’s a ticklish thing. Nobody wants—everybody wants to be the big shot. Now, the big shot’s the Vice President, and I’ll do what you tell me to do. And I’ll be the little shot. I’ll be second on legislative. I want that program carried, and I’ll put every Cabinet officer behind you. I’ll put every banker behind you. I’ll put every organization we got behind you that I can deliver, including NAM [National Association of Manufacturers] and Chamber of Commerce. I told Chamber of Commerce the other day, I said, “You’re cutting the guts out of my program. Now, if you’re going to do it, I’m going to cut the guts out of y’all.” And I got a favorable statement out of [Walter F.] Carey then on some stuff.[note 39] Walter F. Carey became president of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in 1964.[note 40] The Presidential Recordings Program revised the following section of text in 2021 for inclusion in The LBJ Telephone Tapes, a project produced by the Miller Center in partnership with the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library to commemorate the library's 50th anniversary. But I’ll put the labor unions behind you. George Meany’s labor crowd ought to be there tomorrow morning trying to get people to read and write.[note 41] George Meany was president of the American Federation of Labor–Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO) from 1955 to 1979. I told Martin Luther King [Jr.], I said, “Hell, I’m for voting.[note 42] Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was a leader in the civil rights movement; pastor of the Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery, Alabama, from 1954 to 1960; organizer of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) in 1957; co-pastor (with his father) of the Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, Georgia, from 1960 until his assassination on 4 April 1968; and recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1964. And we’re going to get voting. That’s not your problem. You’re going to have a voting message, and it’s an issue that we can do. But . . . The big thing, Dr. King, with you, is a billion, 200 million [dollars] for Negroes only, because who the hell do you think makes less than 2,000 [dollars] a year?”

Hmm.

It’s the Negroes! Now, by God, they can’t work in a filling station putting water in a radiator unless they can read and write. ’Cause they got to go and punch the cash register, and they don’t know which one to punch. And they got to take a check; they don’t know which one to cash. And they got to take a credit card, and they can’t pull the numbers. So you got to teach them [to] read and write. Now, that’s what you damn fellows better be working on. And if these Republicans want to be for the Negroes—and I hope they do. I want a two-party system. I hope some Negroes vote for Republicans. But you make them go vote for education! And I think you ought to find out this group that’s meeting with Mrs. [Edith L. S.] Green [D–Oregon]. And as Vice President of the United States, you ought to ask two of them to come to your home on Sunday afternoon. You ought to have two of them at breakfast with you on Monday morning. You ought to have two of them in your office in the afternoon, and give them a card to the gallery, and give them a picture of you and your wife [Muriel F. Humphrey], and give them one of the President, and then tell them that this is the greatest thing, and their names are going to be built—be written in fire on every schoolhouse in the country, that they’ve made the breakthrough. And that the Pope don’t get a damn thing out of this but a pencil.[note 43] Johnson was referring to traditional resistance to public assistance for parochial schools. And then the School Board’s got to give it to him.

Yes, sir.

And that you’re a Protestant, and that this is the best thing you ever seen. Because if you can’t do more than Old Lady Green, [Humphrey laughs slightly] I’m in a hell of a shape, I ought to [have] had her [as vice president]!

[laughing] Yes, sir, Mr. President.

And if I—she had been a little younger, I might have picked her. Good-bye.

[laughing] Good-bye, thank you.[note 44] End of 2021 revisions.