—construction. The real need, I think Secretary [Anthony J. “Tony”] Celebrezze [Sr.] would agree, that the urg—most urgent need is for remodeling and modernization of urban hospitals.[note 1] Anthony J. “Tony” Celebrezze Sr., a former mayor of Cleveland, Ohio, was U.S. secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW) from July 1962 to August 1965; became a judge for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit in September 1965; achieved senior status in 1980; and served as a senior judge until his death on 29 October 1998. We’ve done a great deal of community hospital construction in suburban and rural communities. A hundred million [dollars] is the amount we’ve asked for for the last three years. Seems to me that the case is very weak for going up to 150 [million dollars].

Now, I know that that is what Senator [J. Lister] Hill [D–Alabama] wants to do, and he may very well put it in anyway, even if . . . even if we don’t ask for the—I mean, even if we ask just for 100 [million dollars], he may move it up to 150 [million dollars].[note 2] J. Lister Hill was a U.S. representative [D–Alabama] from August 1923 to January 1938; a U.S. senator [D–Alabama] from January 1938 to January 1969; Majority Whip from January 1941 to January 1947; and chair of the Senate Committee on Labor and Public Welfare from January 1955 to January 1969. But in that case, he gets charged for it, not you.

How much do we have in our budget for it?

Well, we had 100 [million dollars] for community hospitals and 50 [million dollars] for modernization and remodeling of urban hospitals. So we had 150 [million] all together. Now, if he puts a whole 150 [million] on the community hospitals and gives us nothing for remodeling, we come out even on the budget. But we have increased the community hospital program by 50 million [dollars]. You see, he would not give us the modernization authority this year. The legislation gives it to us for starting in 1966 and at a lower level than we requested.

So he wants to deny us the right to modernize and take that money, [Gordon attempts to interject] put to community hospitals.

That’s right. It’s really a question, Mr. President, of where the need is greatest, and I think everybody who’s studied it would agree that over the last ten years, we’ve done a great deal of construction in suburban and rural areas, and the great need now is in modernizing urban hospitals. That was the case that we made. The committee went along by authorizing a small beginning in 1966, but they authorized nothing in 1965, and they took the money we had in for modernization and put it into the old suburban and rural construction program.

Well, would you talk to Celebrezze? And what’s this estimate you got over here that I haven’t signed?

Well, we had two, Mr. President. The cotton one you just talked to me about. The other one we’re—

[Unclear] HEW [Department of Health, Education, and Welfare].

The HEW. There were five items, Mr. President. All of them on recently enacted legislation. All of them in the budget.

Anything on this?

Yes. The only controversial one was the one on Hill–Burton [Hospital Survey and Construction Act]. That’s one of the five items. The other, there’s no disagreement.

[speaking over Gordon] What is it? That’s what I’m trying to find. Hundred million [dollars] or 150 [million dollars]?

It’s—what we proposed is 100 [million dollars]. What Celebrezze proposed is 150.

What do I have here to sign? A hundred [million dollars]?

That’s 100 [million dollars], Mr. President. Yes, sir.

Well, what do you think we ought to do about it? Do you want to talk to Celebrezze and Hill, and try to get by on 100 [million dollars], and maybe then tell me what to do?

I’ll get in touch with Celebrezze right away, Mr. President.

OK. [Unclear.][note 3] Here, President Johnson may have said “call me back.”

Yeah.