Tommy?

Yes, Lyndon?

I didn’t want to interrupt you.

I’m at the judge’s dinner, that’s all. Lyndon, let me tell you something. By God, that speech today was wonderful.

Well you—

Let me tell you what it did. I listened to it with Ben [Cohen].[note 1] Cohen was a close adviser to President Roosevelt. See William Lasser, Benjamin V. Cohen: Architect of the New Deal (New Haven, CT: Yale University Press, 2002). Lyndon, that has the magic of communication. I mean, the Kennedy speeches were written with lovely alliterative rolls, but let me tell you, they were always something like a teacher discussing things with pupils in a classroom. This had the feeling of authority in it. You were telling the guy that really wants to believe that there’s something to do—you were telling him like a minister to his flock. There was just the right touch of authority and strength in it. I wrote you a letter about it tonight.

Oh, wonderful. I thought that I told Gardner Symonds last night—he was over here—that the finest letter I ever got in my life was one I got from you.[note 2] Symonds was chairman of the board of Tenneco and had attended the Business Council dinner. I thought I’d have to call you and tell you. He was very pleased. I told him that I never saw anybody who could write as good a letter as you could.

Well, fellow, I never heard anybody that could communicate to people the way you communicated today. Lyndon, it was simply wonderful!

Well . . .

I mean, Ben and I both said it had that touch of moral authority in it that Ike used to have without the feeling that he wasn’t really there. And it had—and, as Ben said . . .

We once on a television program criticized the Kennedy stuff. It was beautiful. It was beautiful stuff, but, goddamn it, it never could [chuckles] [unclear] somebody feel that they should be encouraged, or they should get their ass off and do something about it.

Well . . .

And this fellow—this projection today was wonderful.

I asked Jim—

Now I understand why I never could write a speech for you.

I—

The style is utterly unique in its communicability, which is the great secret of it all.

I told Jim [Rowe] tonight he had to start working on one or two political speeches we’ve got in Florida and New York, two or three of these places. We’ve got to get some of them together.[note 3] The Presidential Recordings Program revised the following section of text in 2021 for inclusion in The LBJ Telephone Tapes, a project produced by the Miller Center in partnership with the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library to commemorate the library's 50th anniversary.

But what do you think about [Barry M.] Goldwater [Sr.]? How do I answer him when he said I out-Roosevelt Roosevelt? I think that’s about the finest advertisement he could give me, isn’t it?

[Unclear.] You could say that's—

Huh?

—the nicest tribute you could have. [President Johnson chuckles.] I mean, that’s wonderful.

He said, “He out-Roosevelted Roosevelt, he out-Kennedyed Kennedy, and he made Truman look like a piker.”

[laughing] Well, that’s wonderful.

Well, how do you think I ought to answer? [Laughs.]

Well, you [unclear] simply say, “Thank you for the compliment, [laughs] my friend.”

I also wanted to tell you something else that was amusing. You know, I laughed at him one night, when . . . many months ago, I laughed at him one night when he said he was going to run for president. I said, “I hope you’re going to be wise enough to do what Lyndon did and run for the Senate at the same time.” And he said, “I can’t, goddamn it, I criticized him at the time! But,” he said, [President Johnson laughs] "he was right."[note 4] Johnson had stood for reelection to his Senate seat in 1960, while also seeking the vice presidency. After Johnson resigned his seat, Republican John Tower prevailed in the 1961 special election. And now, Jesus Christ, two days ago he comes out and does the same thing.[note 5] Goldwater ultimately declined to seek reelection to his Senate seat, which was retained for the Republicans by Paul Fannin. [Chuckles.]

Lyndon, I really—I was thrilled by—

I thought I might say, “Well, I’m sorry my student is not following the teacher anymore, just one day.”

[Laughs.] That’s right. That'd be good.

[Chuckles.] [note 6] End of 2021 revisions.

Lyndon, let me tell you, I talked to [Gardner] Symonds afterwards. Who was—I talked to him this morning.

He told me he had spent most of the afternoon with you.

Yes. He was terribly excited. I talked to him this morning. He was terribly excited by what he said. He said, “These fellows really believe.” Then he talked to me about a scheme for employment. This scheme, for the combination of urban renewal and the transportation approaches to the cities, in which he said there’s an indefinite amount of the kind of construction work here that gives the people at the bottom time to learn skills. It was very interesting this morning.

Well, give me a memo on it.

I will.

OK.

But I mean the answer to Goldwater is, [chuckles] “Thank you for the compliment.”

OK. Good night.

OK. Good night.