Transcript
Edited by Robert David Johnson and Kent B. Germany, with Ashley Havard High and Patricia Dunn
See the daily introduction for 1964-02-06 [from the Norton edition]
In sharp contrast with Bundy, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara experienced an almost seamless transition to the new administration. “LBJ used to try out many of his ideas on Bob McNamara,” the Council of Economic Advisers member Gardner Ackley recalled, “even on matters not pertaining to international policy.”[note 1] Gardner Ackley oral history interview, in The President and the Council of Economic Advisors: Interviews with CEA Chairmen, ed. Erwin C. Hargrove and Samuel A. Morley (Boulder, CO: Westview Press, 1984), p. 224. Admiration for McNamara of course was not confined to the Oval Office; indeed, in the Washington of late 1963, the Secretary was near the high point of his influence and popular appeal. The former president of Ford Motor Company and a lifelong Republican, McNamara had been one of John Kennedy’s boldest Cabinet selections. He transformed the Defense Department by applying business techniques to defense acquisition and organization issues, reconsidering the nature of U.S. nuclear doctrine, and dramatically expanding the Pentagon’s reach into foreign policy areas previously located in the realm of the State Department.[note 2] Brian VanDeMark, Into the Quagmire: Lyndon Johnson and the Escalation of the Vietnam War (New York: Oxford University Press, 1991), pp. 10–11. McNamara presented information in the manner Johnson most preferred, conducting a sizable amount of his business with Johnson over the phone. And he did not waste the President’s time. Johnson privately remarked that there was not “a man in government as valuable as McNamara” since “he just gives you the answers, and he gives you cooperation, and he’s a can-do fellow.”[note 3] Conversation between President Johnson and Sargent Shriver, 1 February 1964, 6:30 p.m., in this volume.
Bob McNamara, Mr. President.[note 4] The Presidential Recordings Program revised the following section of text in 2021 for inclusion in The LBJ Telephone Tapes, a project produced by the Miller Center in partnership with the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library to commemorate the library's 50th anniversary.
What do you think about this Cuba water thing?
Well, from a military point of view, we’re in no trouble. We have tankers and contingency plans, and we can keep up our water supply for some time. From a political point of view, I think it’s dynamite. I was just sitting here talking to Clark [M.] Clifford, who was over with us on some other problems, and I think we all agreed it has great potential domestic . . . effects associated with it.[note 5] Clifford had been a key Democratic Party insider and presidential adviser for almost two decades. He replaced McNamara as secretary of defense in 1968. I talked to Dean Rusk a few minutes ago about it. He’s got [Department of] State working on the political aspects of it. [Maxwell D.] Max Taylor’s already started putting into effect our own contingency plans to ensure maintenance of supplies to the base.[note 6] Maxwell Taylor was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Well, what are our alternatives? I guess we could—you’ve got a water supply program where you can supply them without any great difficulty, haven’t you?
Yes, that is correct.
Now, I guess there’ll be great demands that we declare war. Go after them. [Chuckles.] I mean, the rabble-rousers will start hollering. And I guess that we could probably go to a blockade of some kind, couldn’t we? Would that be our best pressure?
Well, we could, but I doubt very much that that would be the first act, Mr. President. It—
Oh, no. Oh, no. No.
—seems to me, and I haven’t—
I’m not talking about the first one, but I’m talking about the alternatives: what we could do short of . . . the . . .
Well, it seemed to me the first thing we should do is check up on the details of these plans, and we have [Rear] Admiral [J. W.] Davis, who’s presently doing that, so we know exactly how much water we can get in there and how long we can last with it.[note 7] Rear Admiral J. W. Davis was commander of the naval base at Guantánamo. If it is as I believe it is—that we can hold out indefinitely—then I think soon as this news is made public, we ought to immediately put out our statement that we—that it’s an inconvenience, but we have other ways of supplying water to the base, and it’ll not affect our military deployment in any way whatsoever. And that will give State a little time to figure out how to put some pressure on Cuba.[note 8] End of 2021 revisions.
We are prepared for a quarantine. We can do it anytime. But I think the immediate thing to do is to try to relieve the public pressure, or prevent public pressure building up on us by an indication that this is a pinprick that doesn’t have any real effect.
When will this be public?
I don’t know. We just . . . just got it in here about, oh, 8 minutes ago, I guess—15 minutes ago, maybe. And we haven’t yet had time to fully check these plans. Adm[iral]—As I say, Max Taylor is having an admiral named Davis dig them all out and make sure we’re correct in believing that we have an indefinite capacity, and we should know that within another 10 or 15 minutes.
At that point, I was going to call State and tell them what . . . if I’m correct in believing that we do, that I thought that ought to be announced, when this is announced, whenever it is. And I don’t imagine they’ll hold it long or be able to hold it long.
Oh, I think it’s already public.
Now, do you see any reason for my canceling my speech tonight and coming home?
None. None.
That’s my judgment.
I think this would dignify it with more importance than is its due.
Yeah. OK. You be in touch with me [unclear].
Yes, sir, I will.
Bye.
All right. Thank you.
Assured by his top national security advisers that he could continue his schedule in New York, he met with the Times editorial board. Approximately 15 minutes later, he received another call from McNamara.
Cite as
“Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara on 6 February 1964,” Tape WH6402.07, Citation #1912, Presidential Recordings Digital Edition [Toward the Great Society, vol. 4, ed. Robert David Johnson and Kent B. Germany] (Charlottesville: University of Virginia Press, 2014–). URL: http://prde.upress.virginia.edu/conversations/9040074
Originally published in
Lyndon B. Johnson: Toward the Great Society, February 1, 1964–March 8, 1964, ed. Robert David Johnson and Kent B. Germany, vol. 4 of The Presidential Recordings (New York and London: W. W. Norton and Company, 2007).