John?

Yes, sir.

How you doing?

Fine. How are you this morning?

Oh, I’m a little bit sad and just got in late last night.

Well, I saw where you did. I’m sure you are sad. It’s a terrible thing. I never saw Jesse [Kellam] so upset. Of course I’ve never seen him under these circumstances either, but he’s taking it real hard. I went down and visited with him a little last night. Nellie [Connally] went out to visit him yesterday afternoon.[note 1] Nellie Connally was the governor’s wife. He just doesn’t know what to do with himself. He walks and paces, to home and back. I’m sure he’s real happy and proud that y’all came down. I know it would be a big help to him.

How was your trip down?

Fine, I had a good one.

We had this Cuba thing right up until we left and had a real rough day on it. I don’t know. I expect we’ll have some more developments over the weekend, but we told him [Castro] we didn’t need his water and told him to take his men back too.

Hmm.

And . . .

Well, I think that’s wise on both accounts. I think that the reaction to your action is going to be real good.

Yeah. Why don’t you and Nellie let me send a plane in and y’all ride up? Come out and let’s ride around?

I’ve got a hell of a morning, and we’re planning on going down to the farm and look at that house this afternoon. I don’t know if you [unclear]—

How is your house doing?

Well, it’s fine, except we’re getting to the point where we have to do an awful lot of picking out of stuff: got to pick out marble and brick and tile and fabrics, fixtures, every other damn thing right now for [unclear] ten days. They[’re] just building it without us; that’s what it amounts to. But they’ve been building it since October, and it’s doing real well.

I’ve got this morning a bunch of people out here waiting to see me.

[Chuckles.] It sounds like my schedule.

[Unclear.]

About nine-tenths of it is . . .

Folderol.

That’s right.

It’s pure goddamned [unclear] to be doing [unclear]. That’s what they schedule you, when you really got things you could be doing. But I’ve been putting it off, and a lot of this stuff I had been [unclear] off for three months.

I don’t want to mess [up] any of your plans, and I didn’t have a thing in the world. I just had Dale [Meeks] sitting here with a new plane.[note 2] Meeks was Johnson’s pilot. For the past month Johnson had been attempting to sell one of his planes to Gover nor Connally.1 thought if you weren’t doing anything, I didn’t want to come into town.

No. [Unclear.]

I think we’ll just stretch out and drive around here. I bought me a new little place the other day, the [Dave] Logan place and—[note 3] See the conversation between President Johnson and Walter Jenkins, 6 February 1964, in this volume.

Did you? I heard. Arthur Staley and them told me about it.

Yeah.

Where is it located?

By God, don’t you ever let he and that damned contractor friend of his get close to you. They’ll run right under you and get everything away from you. [Connally laughs.] Old Arthur took his lease adjoining me.

[Unclear] years.

Run me off of it. Caught me three days late on the rent. A.W. [Moursund] was in Oklahoma, and we were supposed to pay it on the first of the month. Then the fourth he hadn’t gotten it, so he canceled the lease and gave it to Arthur. Isn’t that something?

Well, I’ll—

And that’s on the adjoining place.

This other one, this damned Alan Keller, he got in and bought it in between me and the one I wanted.[note 4] The spelling of Alan Keller is phonetic.1 was trying to buy it too, and the old man said, “Well, I’ll see you tomorrow.” He sold it to Keller that day. And I got Keller then to sell me seven acres where I can get from one place to the other, kind of a trail.

Well, now, is this to the Logan place?

Yeah. The Lewis place—you’ve been on it, haven’t you?[note 5] The Lewis property was one part of the vast LBJ Ranch.

Yeah, I’ve been on the Lewis.

Well, Logan’s adjoins it. I’ve got seven acres that ties it together.

Oh, I see.

But this damned Keller got a thousand adjoining it that I wanted.

I see: in between the Logan and Lewis.

Yeah. [Chuckles.] Yeah. Kind of squatter’s rights. [Connally chuckles heartily.]

What have you done about [Jimmy] Turman?[note 6] The President had supported Turman’s bid to become president of Southwest Texas State College, but Connally’s appointees on the Texas State Teachers College Board of Regents (which governed several small colleges not in the University of Texas system) had voted against Turman. See the conversation between President Johnson and Jimmy Turman, 20 January 1964, Kent B. Germany and Robert David Johnson, eds., The Presidential Recordings, Lyndon B. Johnson: The Kennedy Assassination and the Transfer of Power, November 1963—January 1964, vol. 3, January 1964 (New York: Norton, 2005).

Oh, we’re trying to get ahold of him. He’s supposed to call us. He saw [Jose] San Martin yesterday, and I wanted to get a report from him on San Martin and his visit with him.[note 7] San Martin, a former city council member from San Antonio, had been on the board since 1963. We thought he’d be coming through here last night. I haven’t heard a damn thing from him. I just talked to George Christian and [yawning] told him that if we heard from him, I wanted to talk to him.[note 8] Christian had been an aide to former Texas Governor Price Daniel and was currently serving in that role for John Connally. In 1967, President Johnson appointed him White House press secretary. Of course, San Martin’s a . . . Like all these Mexicans, he’s crazy. And . . . he’s now . . . He’s trying to bargain with me, the son of a bitch, and I’m going to make him resign from that board. He got himself the jackpot over this optometry board and went out and committed me on two appointments to the optometry board. And of course, he’s an optometrist, and he’s a big shot with all the optometrists in Texas. But he shouldn’t have done it, when he knew better.

And I’ve been talking to him about it, because he’s got his . . . his tail over the dashboard now for several months. And I talked to him about this thing and didn’t get anywhere with him, really, about a trade on this optometrist board appointment, on these two appointments to the opto-metry board. And I had John [unclear] talk to him the night before [unclear] up to the [unclear]. John [unclear] said he was going to be all right. And I had talked to him myself the week before. But he goddamned sure voted against [unclear].

And Artie Clark—there’s nothing we can do with him.[note 9] The spelling of Artie is phonetic. I talked with him, and he just says—[unclear] get violent about it—he just said that [unclear] no goddamn good [unclear] awful . . . talked awful about him. And Artie’s offered to resign. I should have accepted it, but I really didn’t think there’s any trouble with San Martin, at least, and probably [Clayton] Heare, and I just said, “Oh, you’re [unclear] to do that.”[note 10] Heare had been appointed in 1963. But he offered to resign his place on the board because he was causing us trouble. And I told him, I said, “I wish that you would vote for him instead of working against him. [Unclear] stirring up all this trouble.”

But they had already gotten to all of them: They had talked to every damn one of them, including Clayton Heare. And of course I don’t know Heare too well. I appointed him because of Canyon, which is up in that area—that school at Canyon, West Texas State [Teachers College].[note 11] West Texas State Teachers College was in Canyon, Texas, a few miles south of Amarillo in the panhandle. The college is now known as West Texas A&M University. Everybody in the [Texas] panhandle wanted a man on the board, and he was about the only man that would satisfy both groups, and of course, like everything else, it got into a hell of a big squabble up there between the bank [unclear] . . . those goddamn banks. And Clayton Heare was about the only man that could satisfy both big banks, where Patterson—all of them, you know—they tend to split on the banks.[note 12] The spelling of Patterson is phonetic.

So I don’t know Heare too well, although I talked to him about it, and his attitude was, well, he would sure think about it, but [unclear] a question of people’s politics ought to be . . . go right into our educational system. But I’m going to call both Heare and San Martin back before the 28th and talk to them.

But I don’t know, and I may have—I don’t know whether they’ll give me their resignations, but I’m going to ask both of them to resign if they don’t vote for him. And that will stir up that wasp nest. [Unclear] these sons of bitches [unclear]. I appointed my last one without getting the commitment from him to do whatever I want him to do because they get appointed, then they get confirmed—

What should I do with Don Yarborough’s daddy-in-law?[note 13] President Johnson was referring to Leverett Edwards, who was up for reappointment to the National Mediation Board. In early February, Johnson had recalled his appointment partly for fear that it would further irritate Connally. See the conversation between President Johnson and Jack Brooks, 3 February 1964, in this volume. Do you know him?

[Unclear] I don’t know.

Of course, when it’s recalled, every Nigra is going to get mad because it looks like it’s a reflection on him.[note 14] The colloquial spelling of Nigra here was a decision made by the editors. Johnson typically used the term Negro when referring to black Americans, and he usually pronounced it with a long e sound and a long o sound. In some instances, however, he engaged a more colloquial pronunciation with a short i or e sound and a short a at the end. And I think it ought to be recalled too. But it makes a professional southerner out of me, killing the film that was made and circularized, and makes me a censor.

Mmm.

[with Connally occasionally acknowledging] Like that son of a bitch Washington Post. They had that testimony on Walter [Jenkins]. And we told them, said, “Just wait until the testimony comes out” —somebody leaked it to them the night before—you’ll have it verbatim.” But it’s not what you say it is, so he didn’t use it. The next day it came out, and he got mad because the Star used it, so he gave the story to the New York Times [yawning] [that] I tried to suppress it. And that’s the way they’ll do you, and they’ll say you’re suppressing the film, and that’s the Negro issue, and it’s an explosive one.

Walter Reuther’s got a strike coming up, and that’s explosive. General Motors made 3.5 billion [dollars] this year. So he says they can afford a little wage increase. He’s going to relieve them some of their “money bags.”[note 15] On 19 January, Reuther, president of the United Auto Workers, told members of his union that they could “relieve” General Motors “of those heavy money bags that are breaking their backs. It’s all there, waiting, and we will be knocking at their door pretty soon.” New York Times, 20 January 1964. That’s going to be tough.

[softly] But I guess [unclear] . . .

Yeah, you’re going to have lots of them—one right after another.

I don’t see that they got anybody, though, that’s appealing to people much. [Barry] Goldwater has gone crazy. He wanted to go in [with] the Marines yesterday, and he’s just nutty as a fruitcake.[note 16] While on the stump in New Hampshire on 6 February, Goldwater called for President Johnson to tell Castro to turn the water back on “or the marines are going to turn it on for you and keep it on.” New York Times, 7 February 1964.

Yeah.

[Nelson] Rockefeller’s wife ain’t going to let him get off the ground.[note 17] In 1961 Rockefeller had divorced his first wife, Tod. In 1963 he married the recently divorced Margaretta “Happy” Murphy. As the President predicted, the divorce and remarriage proved insuperable obstacles in the New York governor’s bid for the GOP nomination.

That’s right.

So I guess that Time magazine and the big ones that are really doing its job, I guess they’re going to have to go with [William] Scranton.[note 18] Pennsylvania Governor Scranton’s brother-in-law, James Linen, was president of Time Inc. publications. I don’t believe he’s appealing enough or attractive enough or . . . I don’t think that they can make the image of him enough to get over [unclear] . . .

No, I don’t either.

All he did was a 5 percent sales tax in Pennsylvania.[note 19] Hoping to raise over $100 million in revenue, Scranton signed legislation on 29 May 1963 to increase Pennsylvania’s sales tax from 4 percent to 5 percent. Wall Street Journal, 31 May 1963.

Mm. I don’t see . . . I don’t know how they’re going to get off the ground. I think they’ll probably go back to [Richard] Nixon.[note 20] Seven years and three days later, on 11 February 1971, Connally became Nixon’s Treasury secretary. Nixon or Scranton. But I don’t think either one of them can do any good.

Well, I wish you were coming up. If you change your mind, call me.

Well, I will.

Anytime you want to use this plane, call Dale [Meeks].[note 21] On New Year’s Day Johnson had talked to Bill Willis, his airplane broker, who was based in San Antonio, about the possibility of Connally’s buying his plane. See the conversation between President Johnson and Bill Willis, 1 January 1964, Germany and Johnson, eds., The Presidential Recordings, Johnson, vol. 3, January 1964.

Well, I appreciate it very much, and if I don’t—

That Lockheed’s still over there—you ought to buy it.

Yeah, I’m thinking about doing it too—

You’re a damn fool if you don’t buy it. It’s a plane that’s worth a minimum of $100,000, without any question. Now, they’re not selling it for that. But it’s got the stuff in it. It’s got the radio gear that’s worth more than it’s bringing. It’s got the inside. Besides what it was given, by God, we’ve got plenty of dollars on the inside of it, and the only damned thing in the world you have to do is make some of your contributors contribute to that committee enough to pay for your gasoline. The only expensive thing is your pilot and your gasoline. Now, you’ve got your pilot here—$50 a day.

[with Connally acknowledging throughout] So, if you . . . if you’re not going . . . if you’re going to be in Austin three days, why, you don’t have to get him. And then I’d just make me a public safety pilot to go along as a copilot with him because . . . don’t need but one pilot, but they want two in there. Herman Heap would never allow two.[note 22] The spelling of Herman Heap is phonetic. He said that two of them distracted. Said he wouldn’t allow but one on it, and he never allowed but one. But you can buy it out of that damned money that—committee can buy it out of that money we made on the dinner. It can pay for it.

Yeah, but I can’t use it. Well, yeah—

Hell, yes, you can use it. Every damned place they can make it available to you, that committee can. If you’re going to Floresville, you can go see Sam Fore.[note 23] Connally’s ranch was near Floresville, Texas. Sam Fore Jr. was a newspaper publisher in Connally’s hometown with long ties to Johnson and Connally. I’d damned sure do it, and I’d do it in one minute. We used ours . . . the chief executive . . . When we go on political trips, even if it’s a government plane, we reimburse them. But we use it for personal trips and everything else, and the damned committee can sure do it. Unless you got . . . Unless your committee’s against you.

No. No, the committee’s not against me, but . . .

I think that’s the best way in the world to handle it. I’d just say to the committee, in your physical condition, that you’re not in a position to be traveling unless you have a plane, and you’re not going to borrow a plane.[note 24] Johnson was referring to Connally’s recuperation from wounds suffered in the Kennedy assassination. So, I’d just take it ahead of them and . . . and what you’ll do is you’ll burn some gasoline—$30 an hour. But hell, what’s $60 when you’re going to Dallas and back and you’ve got 11 people?

Mm-hmm.

And . . . then you can just go anywhere you want to. You can stretch out. If you feel like working, you’ve got a damned good office aboard, and you can land 2,500 feet anywhere.

What are you-all asking for it?

I think 29,000, 30,000 [dollars]. I think he asked 35,000, but I think he said that he’d take 29 to 30[000 dollars].

Mm. Who’s got it?

Bill Willis.[note 25] For information on Bill Willis, see footnote 28 in this chapter.

Bill Willis.

We’ve got $65,000 cash that we put in it. Then we put in 20 to 30[000 dollars] on radio equipment, and we put 20 to 30[000 dollars] on inside, with all of our furnishings and stuff. And since then we’ve redone some new tires, and we’ve got two engines that just got 70 hours and two spares—got to be reworked—but we’ve got four goddamned engines on it, and it just sits down there, and nobody uses it. He has to take it up and fly it enough to—you ought to make him come up and pick you up and take you to wherever you’re going a time or two and see what you think about it.

All right. I’ll do it. He called me one day, and I just hadn’t had a chance—

You just call him up and tell him you want to go to Longview or Floresville, or wherever.[note 26] In northeast Texas, about a half hour from Lady Bird’s hometown of Karnack, the town of Longview was approximately 400 miles from Floresville. You haven’t got a strip down there, have you?

Building one.

I’d damn sure do it. That’s the biggest fool thing I ever heard of. You can get a 3,000[-foot] strip. I built one at the Scharnhorst [Ranch] in a week.[note 27] The Scharnhorst Ranch was one of Johnson’s Hill Country properties.

Hmm.

Make him take you around somewhere and see if you don’t like it.

Well, I will.

Well, if you change your mind, call me.

If we can, I will.

All right.

All right.