. . . [unclear] civil works. He’s going to appear before the Public Works Appropriations Subcommittee tomorrow morning. There is planning money in the bill for the Kaskaskia River Navigation Project.

How do you spell it?

K-a-s-k-a-s-k-i-a. Kaskaskia River Navigation Project. Now, all I want him to do is to have [General Jackson] Graham say to the committee that the [Army Corps of] Engineers do have construction capability for fiscal 1965, and if it’s only 25[000] or 50,000 dollars, that’ll be enough to nail the thing down.[note 1] General Jackson Graham was director of civil works for the Army Corps of Engineers until 1967.

How big’s the project?

Huh?

What’s the total cost?

The total cost of the project, I think, is $30-some million. Now, it’s in that area of Illinois that’s distressed. And already, Kaiser Aluminum and a half a dozen other plants have optioned sites in that area, just waiting for the time when this thing can be finished so that they can barge coal out of there and raw materials.[note 2] Among the companies purchasing tracts of land near the river in anticipation of the $28 million project were Kaiser Aluminum, Illinois Power Company, and Humble Oil. Chicago Tribune, 19 November 1967. And it’s going to be the making of the southern 30 counties of the state.

Let me get on to it. I’ll call you back.

Yeah.

All right.

I just want to be sure that General Graham will say—

All right.[note 3] The Presidential Recordings Program revised the following section of text in 2021 for inclusion in The LBJ Telephone Tapes, a project produced by the Miller Center in partnership with the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library to commemorate the library's 50th anniversary. Now, you’re not going to beat me on excise taxes and ruin my budget this year. [Dirksen attempts to interject.] I’ve got Ways and Means [Committee] holding hearings, and we’re going to come up with a recommendation one way or the other, but don’t beat me on that, now. You can do it if you want to, and you can ruin my budget, but you’re hollering “economy” and trying to balance it, and I cut the deficit 50 percent under what [John F. “Jack”] Kennedy had it. Now, if you screw me up on excise taxes and get that thing going, I’ll have hell. Now, let my Ways and Means Committee—

Now . . . Now, look at the pressure I’m under.

No, you’re not under—

[Unclear] goddamn trade associations.

Well, I know it but, God, you’re also for good fiscal prudence, and you know . . . you know that the way to do this is through the House committee. And you know if you put it in, you’re not going to get it. They’re not going to let y’all write a bill over in the Senate on taxes.

I don’t suppose we are.

Now, please don’t press me on that.

Well, I got to press it [unclear]—

Well, who you going to take? You going to take all your Republicans? Give me one or two of them and let them be prudent. You got people on there that can . . .

Well, you got enough votes to beat it.

No, I haven’t. I haven’t. You can beat me, and [Dirksen acknowledges] if you . . . you oughtn’t to do it. And you see how I’m—how you’re going to let me win by one vote in there, and I’ll call you back in a little bit on this.

You never talked that way when you were sitting in that front seat.

Yeah, well, I did—

You always [unclear].

—I did if my country’s involved. I voted for [Dwight D.] Ike [Eisenhower] one time when [William F. “Bill”] Knowland voted against him. I cast the vote on his foreign aid and brought it out of the committee.[note 4] The President had used this example when discussing the foreign aid bill the week before. William Knowland was a Republican senator from California (1945–1958). See the conversation between President Johnson and James “Scotty” Reston, 6:58 p.m., 17 June 1964, in McKee, Presidential Recordings, Johnson, vol. 7, June 1, 1964—June 22, 1964, pp. 395–400.

You’re a hard bargainer.

And—No, I’m not.

Yes, you are.

But you just take care of [unclear]. And I’ll look at this, and see what I can do, and call you right back.

All right.[note 5] End of 2021 revisions.